So frustrated for DD

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Katymac
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Re: So frustrated for DD

Post by Katymac »

But I have to consider she isn't as good as everyone has been telling me she is; or maybe even that she has burnt out
paulears
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Re: So frustrated for DD

Post by paulears »

Burnt Out!
Grandfather will go ballistic!
She has done fine in her BTEC as far as I know which was a mix of styles

My experience is simply that parents rarely know what goes on when they're not there. You are being fed contradictory information - and other available information you don't have, that's available.

If I remember correctly, she's 14? The school are doing BTEC - so that means continual assessment - if it's a two year course, then there will be assignments, there will be assessment and this is checked by one or even two separate people - so it's likely to be very accurate. She will have been given exact details of what she needed to do, and to what standard to get the grades - so it's very easy to see what she didn't do!

Other teachers have discussed her position in terms of what year group/standard she is and if moving up is appropriate. They've decided at the moment it isn't.

Next step is to consider the people who tell you how good she is. Are they basing their comments on the same areas the others are? Could they be looking at different attributes. Maybe what they are seeing is individual work, rather than team work? The other issue could simply be communication skills - how well she can take direction, and deal with NOT being top dog. Last thing is the grandad comment. Maybe she knows grandad will go ballistic and also knows she can't do much to stop it?

She hasn't left compulsory education and surely should be doing these dance things as a hobby - when family could be thinking career? Maybe, just maybe - she really isn't ever going to be any more than a leisure dancer in her head.

My advice is to read the BTEC stuff carefully - all students have their results as they go. You'll see if she's coasting, or trying so hard but not making it. All the people are giving conflicting advice, so if you trust them - they're all seeing different attributes of the same person. Does it matter to her? If she broke a leg, would she be mortified, or not too worried - happy to do something else.

You've not convinced the professional, Government monitored teachers, who have strict rules and checking procedures - but the 'everyone' people might not have the same set in concrete standards just their personal opinions?
Katymac
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Re: So frustrated for DD

Post by Katymac »

Don't eaaly understand quoting sorry - I have done my best

Grandfather will go ballistic! He just dislikes their attitude to 'other' dance as an engineer he is into diverse learning as "knowledge is good"

My experience is simply that parents rarely know what goes on when they're not there. You are being fed contradictory information - and other available information you don't have, that's available. I agree

If I remember correctly, she's 14? The school are doing BTEC - so that means continual assessment - if it's a two year course, it's 1 year I have some grades

Contemporary Assignment 1 Merit Assignment 2 Distinction Star
Performing Assignment 1 Merit Assignment 2 Distinction
D of dance (?) Assignment 1 Merit Assignment 2 Distinction Star

We don't have assignment 3 results ye
t

Other teachers have discussed her position in terms of what year group/standard she is and if moving up is appropriate. They've decided at the moment it isn't.

Next step is to consider the people who tell you how good she is. Are they basing their comments on the same areas the others are? Could they be looking at different attributes. Maybe what they are seeing is individual work, rather than team work? The other issue could simply be communication skills - how well she can take direction, and deal with NOT being top dog. Just, just don't know

Last thing is the grandad comment. Maybe she knows grandad will go ballistic and also knows she can't do much to stop it? no he is quietly encouraging to her & frustrated when talking to us

She hasn't left compulsory education and surely should be doing these dance things as a hobby - when family could be thinking career? Maybe, just maybe - she really isn't ever going to be any more than a leisure dancer in her head. Maybe but I'd prefer A levels & uni; I've done a major re-think to get where we are now

All the people are giving conflicting advice, so if you trust them - they're all seeing different attributes of the same person. Very true

Does it matter to her? If she broke a leg, would she be mortified, or not too worried - happy to do something else. Umm I think she would be heartbroken, then would work out how to dance in plaster (based on a sprained ankle and a broken toe) ;)

You've not convinced the professional, Government monitored teachers, who have strict rules and checking procedures - but the 'everyone' people might not have the same set in concrete standards just their personal opinions? exactly so I need to be thinking about supporting her if she isn't good enough (which hard as it is to say would be something of a relief)


It's very hard, but I would prefer her not to be a 'dancer', I'd rather she got a proper job & taught evenings & weekends like her dad has - it's a good way to work it

I think the hardest thing for me is during that chat the teacher said if you do well we will move you up more; that implied that they had decided to move her up and she could get moved up more

Your posts always help me think - I do appreciate them

The other teachers/people say:
Ballet teacher at this school "would be happier if DD was with her own age group/ability" "listens and applies"
Ballet teacher outside "works hard and does what she is told" "never messing about" "quietly gets on & does" "remembers routines from months ago"
Ballroom & Latin teacher (examiner & judge) "technically accurate" "developing nicely" "smart little dancer" "needs to be more showy"
Teacher at school "listens & learns" "knows the routine" "doesn't play up"
paulears
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Re: So frustrated for DD

Post by paulears »

I'm a bit worried by the BTEC grades - because what they've done is apply the 'rounding process' that should be done at the very end of the course when no further grade improvement is possible. My humble opinion is that the grades and perhaps the 'treatment' have NOT been delivered with the ability to improve grades. So she has finished the course and got her final grades - but she would have had interim grades these were calculated from. Each unit has a number of criteria and each one is graded separately. If they are rubbish at one - quite common and expected, then they can redo it to improve the end grade so you need to find out if this happened, AND it will tell you what her weaker areas are.

If you don't have assignment 3 results yet on a one year course? is it still going and she isn't on holiday? I'm confused. Forget the assignment 1 grades, she improved and it looks like she got distinction in all criteria for two units and perhaps a merit in one criterion - which could drop the D star down. However - A distinction profile is unlikely to have been achieved without real effort all round. Unless - the teachers have written assignments that do not meet national standards and nobody noticed. The paperwork would be good, and the checking good - but if the content was poor, they could have got through the cracks. Last year only the mandatory units were checked, NOT the optional ones, so it's possible they could have sent the business type stuff, not practical - so it is possible, but unlikely that their contemporary and performance could be below par - kind of if the entire group can't do a hand jive and one can, then that person has to be excellent! If the last unit was the one that was scrutinised, then the iffy dance would not automatically be picked up - meaning ....... her BTEC grade could be inflated

I guess the real question is what does DD feel about how things are? Does it matter to her if she's a dancer? My view on dancers is that there are happy amateurs, happy top-notch professionals and some miserable not quite good enough pros in the middle, who really thought they were good until they met the others.

When I look back at the last 8 years while I've been working with the people who get the work after the auditions, I have to say that by comparison, school dance is weak, college dance average, and until they're 18, very few would make any impact at auditions. The girls in the very strict outside dance schools fare much better, but are still lacking the edge the 18 plus's have. Much as I hate to say it, there are too many people - singers, actors, dancers and technical people who have been told at school and college that they're really good - when they're just really good compared to others. I don't know the success rate, but would be surprised if its better than 5% of people with school and college dance quals who actually make it!

Your 'proper' job could easily have something to do with performing arts - because what's learned is genuinely useful - especially their communication skills, but now many schools are dumping dance at 14-16, maybe the overall quality will go up.

The feeling I'm getting is she's a happy dancer but not totally committed. Maybe that will change when she's older, maybe not. As I mentioned a while back, my Physiotherapist qualified professional dancer now dances for fun with the local amateurs rather than dances professionally, and spends the day earning ten times what a dancer does. Seems damn sensible to me.
Katymac
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Re: So frustrated for DD

Post by Katymac »

I just spoke to her dance teacher (Ballet from outside this school) & this isn't what she had been told by the teacher she knows there

The Btec stuff worries me (I sent you a PM btw)

She is committed, well she thinks she is as do her teachers - we will have to see; she is booking another course so she can go back 'better' but she (& I) aren't really sure what they want anymore

We borrowed a partner at a comp yesterday & they got a 2nd and a 4th with 5 minutes prep - which was lovely
Katymac
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Re: So frustrated for DD

Post by Katymac »

So she is in the baby class again

Some year 6 children started and she is year 10; she has 3 new teachers so we are hoping for some changes - but DD is starting to wonder about herself (again)

Emotionally this is not good for her, and she is starting to understand that too; and referring to it as a 'trial' and thinking about alternatives she could do
2dancersmum
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Re: So frustrated for DD

Post by 2dancersmum »

Can you perhaps clarify what this 'baby class' is as I am a little confused. Is this a general ballet class or a syllabus class? Certainly age has little to do with anything in ballet - if your DD wants to be the best dancer she can. Some schools just move their pupils up roughly in age groups - which might seem fine on the surface but actually everyone learns at a different speed and a child could take an exam with her age group and get 50% or take it 6 months later and get 75%. My younger DD has just taken her RAD grade 4. That class had children from school years 6 to 10 in it. My DD was far from the eldest in the group but with 90% she was obviously ready. Her teacher likens progressing at ballet like building a brick wall - you can build higher and higher but if there are gaps in the lower levels or they are not firmly fixed, the wall will not sustain itself. Your DD is obviously a talented dancer - she could not have ahieved what she did in grade 5 without being so - but perhaps she still needs her 'foundations' strengthening. I doubt a school would do this if they thought she had no potential or viewed her dance as just a bit of fun with friends. I think you really need to meet with someone and have a chat - perhaps along the lines of what specific targets does your DD nee to be working towards - even better if your DD speaks to her teachers as she is the age now where they start expecting a serious student to be asking the questions themselves.
funnygirl
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Re: So frustrated for DD

Post by funnygirl »

I am a little confused by he type of school your dd attends as you mention classes at school and outside school. Is she at a vocational school or does she attend a variety of dance schools outside of "normal" school?

Have you considered taking your daughter for an independent evaluation with a well qualified and respected teacher who does not know her or her background? I find that this is often a good way of getting an objective opinion of strengths, weaknesses and potential.
Katymac
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Re: So frustrated for DD

Post by Katymac »

She does Ballet, Tap & Jazz (soon starting Modern) at a local dance school; they do exams

She is at a CAT, she started late. Last years Ballet teacher wanted to move her up; but they didn't. On several occasions last year (5 or 7 I'm not sure now) they said 'If you work really hard we will move you up'. She maintains she worked hard, they didn't move her up.

If she isn't good enough to be there, she shouldn't be there.

Irrespective of dance; the message I have had from all her teacher (over many years at school) is one of concentration and hard work. A teacher even commented in yr7 "she obviously hates the subject, but she just puts her head down & works"

Her local dance school teacher is bemused at the idea of her not working.

Getting her independently assessed seems a good idea; how would I go about it?
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Re: So frustrated for DD

Post by funnygirl »

OK, if she is on a CAT scheme, then they must have seen some potential. Is it a contemporary or ballet CAT? What sort of background does the teacher at the local dance school have? Has she been a professional dancer or seen many of her pupils to off to vocational schools or become professionals themselves? I ask this because it could be a case of your daughter being a big fish insmall pond at the local school but then more of a small fish when with dancers of a similar or higher standard.

As far as getting an independent assessment goes, it depends where you are. It is obviously best to ask someone who doesn't know your daughter and who is used to working with vocational or similar level students. Many of the RBS JA/MA teachers teach privately as well and may be happy to do this for you. A little research would probably give you their names. The same may be true of other associate schemes. The RAD offer private lessons at the London headquarters as well and one of these could be used for the same purpose. I would mention that you are looking for feedback when you arrange any such class.

Another thing is to have your daughter audition for other associate programmes or youth ballets and see how she gets on there.

Hope this helps a little.
Katymac
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Re: So frustrated for DD

Post by Katymac »

Thanks Funnygirl; I've tried to be cagey about the CAT - but I've lost so much confidence this term I have to be open about it. It's contemporary and DD looks so out of place with the smaller children. But it's the idea that she isn't working that worries me as she is out of her age group at the local school too but that's the other way - she is dancing with 20yos

Her teacher has been in shows and sent a child off to the Brit school this year

She had a tap exam last week and the examiner commented on her dance (which her teacher says she has never had before) & asked DD to audition at her PA school for post 16
Her Btec results will be available soon, as will her Grade 2 tap & Bronze Jazz.

I'll start working on the idea of an assessment & she is over the moon to be working on her grade 6 ballet, grade 3 tap, silver bronze and grade 5 modern (which has been offered as a reward for working hard & DD is over the moon!)
francescasmum
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Re: So frustrated for DD

Post by francescasmum »

We have little involvement in the dancing world and I have found this thread a little ocnfusing at times but the way I see it, as an outsider, is if your dd is doing so well in her ordinary dance school, getting praise and rewarded with excellent exam results why bother with the negative feelings/feed back she is getting from the CAT?
Katymac
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Re: So frustrated for DD

Post by Katymac »

TBH me too about the whole thing francescasmum


But anyway today she is taking action. She is going in and asking for extension work in Ballet - I am really proud of her
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Re: So frustrated for DD

Post by TotallycluelessMum »

My DDs dance but not at CAT level. However from my understanding from friends etc much of the early work at a CAT scheme is building strength. Doing HOURS of exercises to create the foundation on which the dancer is built. This involves working hard ( which it sounds like your dd is doing) but it also depends hugely on physical development, growth and puberty. The growth spurt scan cause imbalances, weaknesses and injuries and that can slow down the progress of the most talented and committed dancer.
It may be that your dd's body simply isn't physically ready for the next stage (even if she can do the steps they need to be sure the steps are being done in the right way for her body) and that forcing things could put her fitness and future dancing at risk. We have heard of a few girls who went through this....
Maybe worth a chat as sometimes the true meaning gets lost through Chinese whispers?
Katymac
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Re: So frustrated for DD

Post by Katymac »

Maybe - we will know more when we get the teachers reaction to her request today
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