Uni graduates v. drama school graduates

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jennifer1972
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Uni graduates v. drama school graduates

Post by jennifer1972 »

Just read this comment on another page about MT and would like to know what you think. Someone was thinking of applying to Chichester on a triple threat and was asking for advice. I know it's only one opinion but.......

I would really recommend applying to drama schools. As a graduate of both a drama school and a uni I'm afraid you just don't get the same opportunities to be seen after you've graduated. Even if the uni is amazing and better than the drama school! All my friends that are working most have gone to drama school. It isn't fair or right but you will find it much harder coming out of a uni.


This isn't my opinion as DD hasn't even started applying yet, so I know nothing, but I'd love to hear from those that do!!
pg
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Re: Uni graduates v. drama school graduates

Post by pg »

I think there's SOME truth to this.

There has been an explosion of establishments providing courses in the performing arts and industry employers will be wary of those that have not proved themselves to the industry.

It will take time for the training to make its mark amongst industry casters and to compete with long established schools and courses. There's little doubt that SOME Uni courses simply don't provide the same contact hours or practical "on your feet " training as drama schools. They don't really provide great training for the industry .

If the Uni course DOES in fact provide the same kind of practical training as a drama school, they'll need to work hard to convince the industry of that fact. I'm sure Chichester is doing just that.

It's hard enough to get industry people to drama school showcases (especially if the showcase is not in London) and some Universities do (I gather) struggle to attract industry audiences for shows and showcases.

However, it's graduates who get jobs (and representation) not schools or Universities. Where you go can certainly make a difference to how much exposure you get to some industry professionals early in your career. But perhaps it doesn't make quite as much difference as the top drama schools would like people to believe!
lotsolaffs
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Re: Uni graduates v. drama school graduates

Post by lotsolaffs »

This may sound awful but I know someone going to Chichester that is a very mediocre performer and though we aren't considering it for our DD,it puts me off a bit,I am surprised that they are even considering it as a career,her mum is so pleased she got in.

I happened to be talking to someone about general education a long time ago who said "If she (my DD) ends up at somewhere like Chichester what's the point?

I don't know what made her an expert but again it put me off.I am sure it has worked out brilliantly for some, I will see how she does and what she makes of it.
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Caroline A-C
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Re: Uni graduates v. drama school graduates

Post by Caroline A-C »

I do know that the drama schools have all the good agents come to see the final year shows and showcases and make offers to those they are interested in. Not sure this is so at the universities though. I have also heard many times that some agents (don't know whether this is most or just some) will only look to take on those who have come graduated from drama school. That's not to say going to uni will stop you getting into the industry - just think things are a little harder.
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paulears
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Re: Uni graduates v. drama school graduates

Post by paulears »

I tend to believe that when you make the choice at 18, people seem to only consider the qualification, and the expense of living in some parts of the country. Understandable, but clearly where you train has a big impact on the people you get to know. Work in our industry frequently relies on your friends, with real and virtual. I hate that networking word, but looking at my Facebook friends who are performers, so many of them know so many others - mutual friends counts are very high, and so often you get messages saying "I didn't know you know .....". If the place you train gets you work, gets you contacts and makes sure you are in the right circle, it must be better than a provincial uni who don't have those benefits.
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oscar
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Re: Uni graduates v. drama school graduates

Post by oscar »

If you can go to open days, showcases etc and make your own judgement . I hate to say it but the quality varies hugely . It is true that whilst training at some of the bigger establishments you meet contacts. Networking is a big deal as it has already been said. Also if you look in the programmes of West End or touring productions the same schools come up time again. I don't recall any unis in there . Look at contact hours when choosing. These can vary hugely and have to have a big impact on training.
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TotallycluelessMum
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Re: Uni graduates v. drama school graduates

Post by TotallycluelessMum »

Surely it depends on the performer, the uni and the drama school? A great performer will probably succeed anywhere, similarly a performer at a top uni dram group with experience at Edinburgh for e.g. may do better than a mediocre drama school and vice versa.
Eddie Redmayne did OK from Cambridge...
pg
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Re: Uni graduates v. drama school graduates

Post by pg »

I think you can find examples of successes from all backgrounds and routes . If you dig, you'd probably be able to track down people who never got any work from those same routes.

However, exceptional students do tend to go to the "known " establishments (including Oxbridge) so it's not surprising that their alumni do particularly well statistically. The well known schools tend to have their pick of the talent on offer.

I agree wholeheartedly with the advice to go to shows and open days if you can.
Robin64
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Re: Uni graduates v. drama school graduates

Post by Robin64 »

I do not know much about the various uni courses for performing but I know one person who went to Chichester and they bullied my DD1 and other people at school so it has just totally put me off that place for DD2 who is looking to audition for MT next year. Not that rational really but can't help it!
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riverdancefan
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Re: Uni graduates v. drama school graduates

Post by riverdancefan »

I have a friend who's daughter is currently in her 3rd year at Chichester,
I asked about agents showcase etc, both Mum and DD didn't even know what I was talking about..( worrying when they are about to graduate into the world of employment) ..she's a lovely girl but went as a very average dancer with no ballet or tap, or singing skills. Having said that, she has loved her time there, and that's important too.

I know of another girl who left Chichester three years ago and has only had one related job, character in Disneyland Paris for 6 months. Not many to base an opinion on I know but there you go. Of course I'm sure there are many who have graduated from there and gone on to work in the business very happily.


I haven't heard or seen. anything that would make me consider it for DS, there are plenty of YouTube videos you can see of their dance teams for a flavour.

Other Universities have very strong musical theatre societies and of course there's the famous Footlights at Cambridge and I currently know of a couple of incredible performers studying classics who are at Cambridge having an amazing time there, as is one at St Andews and I'm sure they will go on to be employed in the business.
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paulears
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Re: Uni graduates v. drama school graduates

Post by paulears »

I'd bet chichester turn out great drama teachers though?

Every single year in panto - which is always the first job for many newly qualified dancers, I get a call on the first payday. It's always the same.

Dancer - I haven't been paid enough. My contracts says £X a week, but I've only got £X
Me - Have you registered with HMRC as self-employed, otherwise they'll take Tax and NI off your pay?
Dancer - Why am I being taxed, and what is NI?
Me - Well, you get a tax free amount of money you can earn every year, and everything else they take 20% of. NI is National Insurance - pays for your pension and the Health Service - things like that.
Dancer - But I need the money, I worked out how much I could spend on accommodation and there isn't enough to pay the landlady.
Me - have you got a UTR number? Did you forget to give it to the office?
Dancer - what's that?
Me - well, most dancers are self-employed, and that way you give your clients a bill, and they pay it in full. You then pay your tax at the end of the year when you add all your income and deduct your expenses.
Dancer - eh?

Laines, Birds, Arts Ed and a few others seem to have some sessions with their people on this. I don't think the unis do?

Next time a dancer says they don't need maths, this is a good one!
bop2thetop
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Re: Uni graduates v. drama school graduates

Post by bop2thetop »

This topic is exactly what I'm concerned about. As we all know this industry is extremely competitive. There are no where near enough jobs for all the Drama School graduates or top Dance School graduates. I know so many performers struggle to find work and eventually come home. Even the ones from the so called top places. So what chance would someone have if they have been on a university course. I would take a guess that it would be extremely difficult for them. I expect there is the odd exception. I would love to hear from anyone who knows anyone who has gone to a 'normal' university to study either dance or acting and made a career of performing after graduation. It would give everyone hope!!
lbm1e14
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Re: Uni graduates v. drama school graduates

Post by lbm1e14 »

It's all about the contact hours IMHO. If you're not getting 30 hrs or more a week then you're not going to come out with any reasonable chance of being a serious triple threat performer. Especially from a Uni which barely offers 30wks a year. Agree with all the comments about exposure to agents too. Also Uni courses, rightly or wrongly, don't attract the best and most talented applicants so you're not likely to be surrounded by motivated talent in the main. There are no doubt exceptions. Look closely at NSS scores and also try to get details of student outcomes post graduation. That said even the top drama schools don't publish those!
Rose20
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Re: Uni graduates v. drama school graduates

Post by Rose20 »

Hi, thought I would add my experience from a different area of study.
In the 80's my chosen career was considered to be a very practical subject involving a lot of hands on experience and training. When degrees were introduced none of us took it seriously and had the same views as many have about performing arts degrees now.
Fast forward 20 years and a degree is the only route into my job and people like me have taken them in our spare time to catch up!
I'm not suggesting this will happen in performing arts, just sharing my experience of how things can change. I won't go into whether this change is good or bad here, but there have been some benefits (in my opinion!)
Last edited by Rose20 on Mon Apr 11, 2016 12:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
pg
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Re: Uni graduates v. drama school graduates

Post by pg »

Many drama schools are affiliated to Universities and now offer BAs.

I don't think it's the qualification that's the issue (because it will often be a very similar qualification - ie a BA - via Uni or drama school) it's the course content, the contact hours and whether the course provider genuinely provides what the industry is looking for.

An employer of actors won't give two hoots whether or not someone has a degree; they may care where they trained.

Once a performer has recognisable credits on the CV, where or whether someone did formal training becomes far less important.

After a while, the work record speaks for itself.

There are no routes you can take to guarantee work or representation in the industry. There are out of work RADA graduates as well as out of work Uni graduates. However, the top schools still have clout and contacts and consistently turn out *some* graduates who get work.

Although they won't tell you which graduates don't get work, most of them advertise the work their alumni achieve (if it's reasonably high profile ) so you can at least get an inkling. The caveat there, of course, is that those graduates are not "you". Just because some graduates do well doesn't mean they all will - and just because courses don't seem to have any obvious high profile successes doesn't mean that you couldn't be the first :)
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