Auditioning for 2017

[kzgirl]

I think that with very few exceptions it is indeed a dishonest money making machine.

The whole audition process is a shambles and the industry needs to get a grip of it. The new Spotlight/Equity criteria is a great start but what is needed is an overhaul of funding. How about this for a controversial approach/point of view. Degrees should be scrapped as they don't make anyone a better performer. All funding from SFE for degrees should be re-directed to DaDa which should then be overhauled to be available to colleges who fulfill the new Spotlight/Equity criteria which should be the new "accreditation". That way funding would be going to colleges which are turning out well trained performers. Anyone who wants a degree as a backup should then have to self-fund one year of purely academic study.

Why should someone who chooses the degree route have to self fund for one year for this subject when a student doesn't have to for other subjects? The other thing to think about is the fact that these performing arts colleges are in this to make money and not all of them come up with the goods to make your DC or give your DC what you are expecting. The colleges are taking the 'mick' charging large amounts of fees well over the student finance figures, promising the earth and students not always getting what they are told to expect. I am sorry totally disagree with the degree being scrapped. Until you have been in this situation you may disagree with me but from our experience the colleges are wanting to make money and do not have the welfare of the student on their radar.

I'm not just referring to degrees at University but also degrees offered by the colleges. The colleges only do it because it attracts funding outside the DaDa scheme. They do as little as possible to get the degree accredited. So it's fundamentally dishonest.

Your point about colleges not "doing what they say on the tin" is a valid one as only one as far as I'm aware publishes any data at all on outcomes. But if you ask any professional they will say that the new Spotlight criteria are spot on. And it's the Universities which will probably fall foul of it. Those who do not should be clearly telling students that they will not be able to join Spotlight or Equity.

Also I'd point out that my suggestion would not stop or reduce funding but redirect it on a means tested basis to a DaDa type scheme rather than give it to people just because they're doing a degree. But it should be available to institutions who are giving appropriate levels of training and who publish information about outcomes.

Also you'll never convince me I'm afraid that you should get a degree in musical theatre unless it is a purely academic course of study of its history, evolution, trends and influences.

I think we'll just need to agree to differ on this one.

I understand what you are trying to say but speaking to the current students at Chichester on the triple threat course they were saying that thier course was full on and full time they had packed days and very little time, I actually think this forum takes the contact hours to the letter but in reality it is a lot more this was definitely the case at the Hammond as well on the degree course. The colleges are a private business out to make money, I wonder why hardly any of them publish their outcomes, the colleges are for people who have money and can afford them even with a full DADA it would be a struggle for the ordinary parent as we read all the time funding is an issue. If you ask me the colleges shouldn't be so greedy. Obviously this is just my thoughts on this subject and experiences already had with DD.

[mariapanayi]

My DD was offered a Foundation Course at a drama school - but we just can't afford that kind of money, particularly as we then have to save for the following three years of a degree...

It of course depends on the establishment though, and I am more than happy to support her financially. She is only considering the best drama schools in the country, where the training and opportunities far exceed that at university, and she'll graduate with a degree which gives her options when she finishes her training. At the end of the day, they have to support themselves when they aren't working professionally, and I would only consider courses that are accredited.

For anyone still looking at options for September, I really would recommend Bodens College of Performing Arts. The courses are all fully funded, accredited and the offer fantastic training. We've spent the past couple of years with them, and their productions are unbelievable.

I did look at a few other options for this next academic year - but nothing beats the Gap Year course they offer, so we'll be staying with them for a third year. They are providing them with panel experience to help prepare them for the next lot of auditions (when we have to go through all of this again!!!!!!), and the opportunity to perform loads of times throughout the year. The course is free and the time the staff give is brilliant - in no way do would I consider them 'greedy' - far from it!

Can anyone recommend any others that are worth looking at?

[Munchpot]

Umm anyone on here think it's all a money go round?

I think that with very few exceptions it is indeed a dishonest money making machine.

The whole audition process is a shambles and the industry needs to get a grip of it. The new Spotlight/Equity criteria is a great start but what is needed is an overhaul of funding. How about this for a controversial approach/point of view. Degrees should be scrapped as they don't make anyone a better performer. All funding from SFE for degrees should be re-directed to DaDa which should then be overhauled to be available to colleges who fulfill the new Spotlight/Equity criteria which should be the new "accreditation". That way funding would be going to colleges which are turning out well trained performers. Anyone who wants a degree as a backup should then have to self-fund one year of purely academic study.

For me the biggest problem with DADA funding is that it is a black and white 'What is the household income?' question. It doesn't take into account how many children you have and what those children are doing.
If you have a household income of £60k and one child who wishes to pursue Performing Arts Training then that's great, but if you have 2 children who want to do it the DADA scheme treats both families the same with regard to the amount of support they can get

At least with the Student Loan system the debt is that of the student and, unless you are applying for the maintenance grants, household income doesn't play a part in the process.

[lbm1e14]

Umm anyone on here think it's all a money go round?

I think that with very few exceptions it is indeed a dishonest money making machine.

The whole audition process is a shambles and the industry needs to get a grip of it. The new Spotlight/Equity criteria is a great start but what is needed is an overhaul of funding. How about this for a controversial approach/point of view. Degrees should be scrapped as they don't make anyone a better performer. All funding from SFE for degrees should be re-directed to DaDa which should then be overhauled to be available to colleges who fulfill the new Spotlight/Equity criteria which should be the new "accreditation". That way funding would be going to colleges which are turning out well trained performers. Anyone who wants a degree as a backup should then have to self-fund one year of purely academic study.

For me the biggest problem with DADA funding is that it is a black and white 'What is the household income?' question. It doesn't take into account how many children you have and what those children are doing.
If you have a household income of £60k and one child who wishes to pursue Performing Arts Training then that's great, but if you have 2 children who want to do it the DADA scheme treats both families the same with regard to the amount of support they can get

At least with the Student Loan system the debt is that of the student and, unless you are applying for the maintenance grants, household income doesn't play a part in the process.

Interesting point about DaDa. I'm not sure how many families have more than one DC needing performing arts DaDas but one thing I am sure of is that there are many more families with only one DC who get unfunded offers and so are not able to take up offers which they deserve. What's more there are many who do not try because of the perceived funding issue. Moving degree funding into a DaDa type funding scheme on top of e funds already there would vastly increase the numbers of less well off DCs who could take up their offers.

[Munchpot]

[/quote]

Interesting point about DaDa. I'm not sure how many families have more than one DC needing performing arts DaDas but one thing I am sure of is that there are many more families with only one DC who get unfunded offers and so are not able to take up offers which they deserve. What's more there are many who do not try because of the perceived funding issue. Moving degree funding into a DaDa type funding scheme on top of e funds already there would vastly increase the numbers of less well off DCs who could take up their offers.[/quote]

It's not just having more than one child wanting to pursue this training. Have 1 who does and another at Uni, or even having 3 or 4 kids. The system doesn't take into account disposable income just household income and I think that's a problem

It's true that many parents are confused by the whole process. I have been and have had to learn a lot in a short time

i think as long as the arts are seen as elitist, whether as a performer or someone who enjoys them, the there will always be an uphill battle. Maybe more schools should be aware of different pathways for our kids. Some really do struggle to understand that not all children are academic or want to pursue 'ordinary' careers.

[lawn]

I would really hate for funding to only be available via a Dada and I'm speaking as someone whose child is more of an actor than a dancer. The fees for the course cost are ok, it's funding the accommodation that's the issue. Over a certain amount (£30k?) there's no help and funding full-time living and accommodation costs when the drama schools are predominately in London or the south would just be astronomical and out of many people's reach. It's ok if your DC has a conveniently situated granny/auntie/God-parent or you already live within a commutable distance but for the rest it's just not an option.

[Munchpot]

I would really hate for funding to only be available via a Dada and I'm speaking as someone whose child is more of an actor than a dancer. The fees for the course cost are ok, it's funding the accommodation that's the issue. Over a certain amount (£30k?) there's no help and funding full-time living and accommodation costs when the drama schools are predominately in London or the south would just be astronomical and out of many people's reach. It's ok if your DC has a conveniently situated granny/auntie/God-parent or you already live within a commutable distance but for the rest it's just not an option.

Totally agree

[Shabby]

Thank you so much for bringing this point up, so true we couldn't apply for a DADA for my ds as no point as our income was going onto the limit but they don't take our outgoings into account - we have two children going into performing arts,and we haven't even started paying our mortgage yet as our outgoings have been so incredibly high in the last 10 years - fortunately my ds got a good scholarship for a top PA school but London living expenses are crippling us! Very tempted to try and put my dd off going into PA!

[carriecrafts]

How about, instead of getting rid of degrees for PA, we got rid of the Trinity Diplomas and made all of them degrees, eligible for £9000 tuition fee loans? Then the DaDA funding could be awarded as bursaries to outstanding applicants to use to cover the top-up fees (some colleges charge well over £15,000 per year). The argument for only academic degrees has been lost, Rambert offer a degree, Circus Space offer a degree... the important thing is the contact hours and quality of training.

My DD was offered a DaDA, it would have covered all the fees plus given her over £5,000 towards living costs. She couldn't accept it because the living costs in London are over £10,000 per year and with 2 other children there was no way we could find an extra £5000 for 3 years (it has actually ended up being 4 years because of injury!). People think the sliding scale is unfair on middle-income families, but the DaDAs certainly don't work for the lower incomes as there is simply no wiggle room on such low incomes. Thankfully she was offered a choice of degree places too. She didn't even apply to Arts and Mountview despite her teachers' urging, as we knew we couldn't have afforded the top-up fees.

As lovely as it would have been to have her complete her training without debt, I don't see why performing arts should be treated so differently to other higher education training (which should all be free IMHO, but that's the system we have and I'm not getting into politics ).

[Robin64]

Totally sympathise with everyone on the cost of this whole thing. We have paid out loads for DD1 at uni already - accommodation is the big expense which is nowhere near covered by loans and DD works every weekend too which has been pretty hard. At least tuition fees have been talked about during this election.

Anyway after agonising for ages DD2 is taking up her foundation offer for Bird - huge sacrifice for us and will have to work extra hours and use a loan. However determined now decision is made to be really positive for her. So on that note does anyone have any information on accommodation please? I know there are a couple of student houses nearby which we walked past when we went to audition - any info on these gladly received. I will be able to phone next week after half term but thought I would see if anyone has any helpful snippets on here.

Also I did think housing benefit would be available but has that just recently been changed? - it was okay when I looked into it a couple of month's ago but I keep seeing info on no HB for under 21 now.

Good luck anyone still waiting, hope it is good news.

[dancemom43]

Totally sympathise with everyone on the cost of this whole thing. We have paid out loads for DD1 at uni already - accommodation is the big expense which is nowhere near covered by loans and DD works every weekend too which has been pretty hard. At least tuition fees have been talked about during this election.

Anyway after agonising for ages DD2 is taking up her foundation offer for Bird - huge sacrifice for us and will have to work extra hours and use a loan. However determined now decision is made to be really positive for her. So on that note does anyone have any information on accommodation please? I know there are a couple of student houses nearby which we walked past when we went to audition - any info on these gladly received. I will be able to phone next week after half term but thought I would see if anyone has any helpful snippets on here.

Also I did think housing benefit would be available but has that just recently been changed? - it was okay when I looked into it a couple of month's ago but I keep seeing info on no HB for under 21 now.

Good luck anyone still waiting, hope it is good news.

Hi Robin64
My DD is doing the foundation at Bird and we have booked her into the Nest (now www.hollywood-house.co.uk) It is usually only Bird students and has 16 ensuite bedrooms. Think the 3 singles have gone now but doubles left at around £150 a week ? Other than that its Avery Halls which I think are about £125 a week. Hollywood house looks amazing as newly renovated.

As for housing benefit I rang Bexley council a few months ago and 2 different operators believed we would be able to claim ???

Has anyone else tried to claim housing benefit yet for anywhere ?

[dancemom43]

Ive looked on line and very confusing and yes under 21s are not entitled to housing benefit but there are exceptions and one of these is for people who are a student and not in higher education (eg foundation or A levels) appear to still be entitled. I guess it is a call to the individual councils ?

[Munchpot]

Ive looked on line and very confusing and yes under 21s are not entitled to housing benefit but there are exceptions and one of these is for people who are a student and not in higher education (eg foundation or A levels) appear to still be entitled. I guess it is a call to the individual councils ?

Might be worth speaking to Naomi in the Registry at Bird. She'll be clued up as to whether foundation can claim.

At Move It Evolution were telling us we could claim, but others said the rules have been changed, so it's very confusing.

[dancemom43]

Yes will ask at Bird but the Citizens advise and Shelter state students under 21 not on HE can claim ?

[martint]

Yes will ask at Bird but the Citizens advise and Shelter state students under 21 not on HE can claim ?

Laine have clearly stated students cannot claim.