Acting or Musical Theatre?

[lawn]

I suspect the pros and cons have been done to death, but I'm seeking some opinions/advice/experiences on behalf of my 13yo DD.

She has her heart set on applying to Drama schools at 18. She's aware it's a tough call as she's known older students from her drama group audition for places.

She is much more of an actor, then a singer but only has minimal dancing experience. Dancing is her weakest threat.

As such, I thought she'd apply when the time came for the straight acting courses. A recent trip to the west end (to watch Wicked) had her talking a much more interest in doing musical theatre.

My reservation is even if she starts dancing lessons now, in a few years she'll be up against people who've danced for far longer and will likely be at a lot higher standard than she can acheive from now. There's also the time commitment, she's out 3 times a week already with her drama lessons and is about to start GCSE coursework.

Also how does funding work. DH has a company car and we have to add that benefit on as income for things like child benefit, I should imagine DADA works the same way. For the straight acting courses, I've seen that you can do a degree and get a student loan. Can you do the same for musical theatre courses at the drama schools?

My thoughts for DD are she'd be far better going for the acting courses and start and continue any dancing in addition which is why I'd welcome some views from others.

[pg]

I think your instinct is probably right: she would have a lot of catching up to do to compete with triple threat performers who have been dancing for years.

Dancing and movement skills will be useful whichever path she takes though. There's nothing to stop her applying for both MT and drama courses - if you can afford it!

There are graduates working in MT who trained as straight actors - and some MT graduates work in straight plays, though anecdotally I have heard of some resistance from casters to consider MT performers for straight plays (that could be perception rather than reality).

DS went to RADA and they did a musical as one of their final year shows. They had singing lessons, movement classes and some dance. Depending on the exact skills needed (and, of course, the talent of the individual actor) there's no reason why a graduate from RADA couldn't work in MT.

Funding changes all the time, unfortunately. It's hard to predict exactly what it will be like when she applies. I think the best you can do at this stage is scour the websites/prospectuses of all the schools and courses and find out what they say about funding for their courses at the moment. Then look at current information about what is taken into account for both dada and student loans.

[moleseymum]

My DS is 20 and only started dancing at 11, he is starting a 3 year musical theatre diploma in September.

I am no expert, but would suggest that if your DD wants to do musical theatre then ideally she should do some dance, maybe a teenage beginners ballet. The schools are looking for potential and do not expect them to be amazing from the start. Maybe also look at the Acting with Musical Theatre courses.

You can get a student loan for any degree course, but at the moment for degrees at private colleges you can only borrow £6000 towards fees which is often only half of the fees then you have accommodation and living expenses to find. DS cannot get any government funding towards his as he is not on a degree course, but as we know student funding can change, so who knows what will be available or have been taken away in 5 years time?!

[missmusic]

Ah, the pull of Wicked!
My daughter saw that when she was 14. Started dancing after this and has just graduated from ArtsEd. Her voice was her strong point though.
It is expensive to train and then trying to work and audition is hard.
Good luck though.

[Katymac]

DD started ballet properly at the start of yr9 (she had done some baby ballet) & had her grade 5 in 8 months, she then took up Tap & modern in the January

She did the Performers Prevoc in Sept 15 (yr12) and had 7 offers (6 with funding) the following year and is about to go into second year

But she worked immensely hard

[mrs_lovett]

Hi all. I would be really interested to have a really honest opinion of what life is really like after training-in both areas, just so I can inform my daughter if what to expect if she really decides to go for it at the age of 16/18. She's only just turned 12 now but is highly focused on the triple threat route- does hours and hours of dance and gymnastics- is grade 6 level in 4 different dance styles, has a very strong belt voice (though obviously I'm a slightly biased- but singing is definitely her strength), has performed in at least 3 shows a year in principal roles since the age of 7 and is in NYMT. Which is all fine and dandy and she LOVES it but will she actually have a nice life even if she does get into somewhere for training or is straight acting a better route? How much do west end performers get paid as opposed to pay in rep theatre for example? She does give up a lot to do what she does as I'm sure many NAPM children do but is it really worth it in the long term and does a real career in MT or Acting really exist or will she always be scratching around for work? Do most people give up MT at a certain age- then what do they do? I would be really interested to hear from anyone with experience beyond the training. I think if she wants to do MT, she is getting to the point of needing to focus on it but she is capable of doing something more academic with her life too and I just want to inform her as best I can what life in this crazy business is really like!! Thanks very much.

[oscar]

Mrs Lovett you are asking the questions that everyone with DCs taking musical theatre would love to know the answer to. It is a constant worry. DS still has 2 years left and where he is, a lot of the students have gone straight into the West End , so there are success stories. I would have loved him to train for a stable , well paid career using musical theatre as a hobby .He was adamant that he would never be happy if he didn't follow his dream and nothing would make him change his mind . I guess if their attitude is so focused you have no choice but to take a deep breath and let them go for it.

[Katymac]

& let's be honest after 10 years or so (maximum) they are likely to settle down, do further training & get a real job

When my parents were young they thought jobs were for life, they were wrong about that - from the 60's onwards people changed jobs all the time
When I was at uni we thought careers were for life, we were wrong about that too - I have retrained now 3 times & I see a potential for at least one more before I retire at 67 2/3 yrs
& for DD's generation they will retrain and move between jobs & careers many times as their needs change - before retiring potentially in their 80's

So if they first 10 yrs is 'having fun' it's not a problem in my eyes - their working life could be so long why not have fun first

[lawn]

Thank you for the answers everyone. That's interesting about RADA . I meant to ask this in my opening post, do the straight acting courses do a little bit of musical theatre too? If they do, I think this would be the route for DD. I came across Royal Centrals Acting with MT. unless I've looked at it wrong, I couldn't see anything about the audition including dancing. Does anyone know?

Based on current finances, we would be able to afford for her to audition for both acting and MT. I have seen some courses that cost £12K but you can only get student loans for £6K. They would be out of the question. We live in Yorkshire, so living at home and commuting to cut costs wouldn't be possible. I've also seen some places where their tuition fee is £9K. Can the whole amount be borrowed in these instances? I know this is 5 years or more into the future, but I'd just like a general idea.

Thanks for telling me about your DC starting dancing at a later age. This is something for her to look into.

I don't know if I'm aware of every drama school there is (not Unis). Is there a list anywhere?

mrs-lovett- My Godmother's DD, is an actress now in her late 30s who trained at Mountview. She is in and out of work. Last year she was in a main touring musical and went from that to Panto. In between she works in schools or has worked in a gym. This subject was once fetched up with my DD's drama teacher, who replied as an actor you believe that you will be the one that finds the work. It seems to be a passion within them. I see this with my own DD. She is adamant that she wants to work within this field

[mrs_lovett]

Thanks very much for your replies. I can see how acting has more longevity but then I guess if you are well trained in 3 different disciplines through the MT route, that could lead to better employability possibly in areas such as teaching later on. I know there are no guarantees of work no matter what training you do (including academic study) but just wondered how people had found it once they had trained in either MT or Acting. Do they earn enough to live in London even if they are successful in obtaining a few good jobs after they leave or is money a constant worry? Thanks! I'm sure you're right Oscar. I should just let her get on with it!!!

Lawn- thanks for your examples. I'm sure your dd could go for MT if she was up for working really hard on her dance- 13 isn't too late and dd had a friend who did hardly any and got into Trinity Laban. She did have a cracking voice though. If you have 2 of the 3 that can be enough I think though I'm definitely not an expert!!!

[jaybeeyellow]

Lawn
I've PM'd you.

[moleseymum]

Based on current finances, we would be able to afford for her to audition for both acting and MT. I have seen some courses that cost £12K but you can only get student loans for £6K. They would be out of the question. We live in Yorkshire, so living at home and commuting to cut costs wouldn't be possible. I've also seen some places where their tuition fee is £9K. Can the whole amount be borrowed in these instances? I know this is 5 years or more into the future, but I'd just like a general idea

If it is not a degree at a private college then the tuition fees will be up to £9000 a year and the student loan covers all of it, so GSA and Chichester are two that would fall into that category. If a private college offers a degree at £9000 then you can only borrow £6000 a year towards fees, but the reality is that most charge £12,000 upwards. Also, if an institution is newly offering a degree sometimes student loans are not available initially, I know this was the case for Millennium. I believe the maintenance loan is the same for 'normal' and private institutions.

DS is self funding, if he struggles then he will look at a career development loan, the maximum that can be borrowed is £10,000 but is just like a bank loan and repayments start a month or two after the course finishes and I believe the longest repayment term is 5 years, so the monthly repayment is quite high.

[pg]

I don't think there's an easy answer about whether one can make a living doing MT or acting.

The statistics are alarming. Only about 8% of Equity members in work at any one time, most actors earn very little in a year (less than 5000 from acting) etc etc. The hard truth is that most actors - at least at the start of their careers - have to have other work too.

I'm an actor - and I certainly don't earn a full time wage doing it. On the rare occasions I get a good theatre job, it can last for several months on a fair wage - but not the sort that allows me to squirrel away much money. A good corporate or commercial can pay me enough to get by for a couple of weeks or so on just one day's work - but there's absolutely no guarantee that I will get enough of them to keep me going. Occasional TV work has reasonable pay - but for me that's a really rare occurrence!

DS has worked pretty consistently since graduating from RADA almost ten years ago - but he's also had brief stints doing other things: admin work, shoe shining, pub work etc. If you looked at his CV then he's doing well, with some high profile companies who have employed him several times - but there are still months where he's fighting to make ends meet.

I do know some actors who make a comfortable living - but it's certainly not easy. Most actors don't make a good living - and many, many actors have to give up the pursuit if they want to have a "normal" life with security, mortgage etc.

[Caroline A-C]

My DS graduated from Arts Ed on the MT BA two years ago. He had done about six months of ballet prior to getting into Arts Ed but I think the girls had done considerably more. Your DD still has years before auditioning so it is by no means too late to start dance lessons. The colleges are looking for somebody who shows true potential and has trainability, not somebody who is the finished product. At Arts Ed there are three classes in each year. In the first year the students are setted according to their dance ability - those with very little experience in one group, those with a bit more experience in the middle and the advanced in the third group. In the second year I think they were mixed up and the dance ability was not relevant.

As far as funding is concerned, I am not an expert on that. DS didn't have a DADA but got the student loan (think it is around £6,000 for these courses rather than the full £9,000) and the maintenance loan. We did have to pay the difference between the £12,000 odd per year and the student loan though. Mind you, things have probably changed now and somebody else will be able to help more.

DS has been constantly working since graduating but he is well aware that at the moment he is very fortunate and that could all change at the end of each contract. However, there is not a hope in hell of him even considering anything else - it is part of him. I think most of his peers think the same way. He would be as miserable as sin in any other profession.

[Caroline A-C]

My DS graduated from Arts Ed on the MT BA two years ago. He had done about six months of ballet prior to getting into Arts Ed but I think the girls had done considerably more. Your DD still has years before auditioning so it is by no means too late to start dance lessons. The colleges are looking for somebody who shows true potential and has trainability, not somebody who is the finished product. At Arts Ed there are three classes in each year. In the first year the students are setted according to their dance ability - those with very little experience in one group, those with a bit more experience in the middle and the advanced in the third group. In the second year I think they were mixed up and the dance ability was not relevant.

As far as funding is concerned, I am not an expert on that. DS didn't have a DADA but got the student loan (think it is around £6,000 for these courses rather than the full £9,000) and the maintenance loan. We did have to pay the difference between the £12,000 odd per year and the student loan though. Mind you, things have probably changed now and somebody else will be able to help more.

DS has been constantly working since graduating but he is well aware that at the moment he is very fortunate and that could all change at the end of each contract. However, there is not a hope in hell of him even considering anything else - it is part of him. I think most of his peers think the same way. He would be as miserable as sin in any other profession.