Query on performing arts degree costs

[bop2thetop]

I'd also be very interested to hear from anyone who has done well in the industry after doing a musical theatre / dance or acting degree at a normal university. By normal I mean not a drama school. Because I really worry about them. I wonder how they get on. When some of the graduates from the reckognised schools can't get work how do the uni graduates get work? I would love to hear that some of them do manage to get work in the area they are training for. Does anyone know of anyone?

[lbm1e14]

It's so difficult for parents as you say bop2thetop. You don't want to steal your children's dreams but for some it's just financially impossible. We're lucky we've been able to fund DD but it means a tough three years ahead.

Your question about Uni MT grads is a good one and and it seems to me that there is very little on this forum about their outcomes. Might be worth a separate thread as I'm sure many parents would like to know more as it doesn't present funding challenges. That said all Unis are obliged to publish student stats about student outcomes and employment so there should be some info out there about it. Rightly or wrongly our DD was categorical that she wouldn't even consider it. Mainly because she believes that it's all about London. She has several friends who have gone down that route so we'll see how it pans out.

I'd be interested to hear what people think/know about an MT degree from say Chichester or Wolverhampton and a degree/diploma from the London institutions. In my perhaps cynical view the likes of Bird and Urdang only offer degrees as a vehicle to get funding for students. There is no pretention as to academic content which for me is what a degree should be about. Indeed we were told by more than one establishment that they resist all attempts to introduce written work and do the bare minimum to get degree accreditation. Indeed as far as I am aware the criteria which say Urdang use to determine who gets a degree offer and who gets a diploma offer are purely based on potential on a practical level. With the notable exception of GSA it is interesting that the degrees for the London colleges are all accredited by relatively low ranked Uni's.

In the end IMHO these qualifications are vocational not academic. It's about contact hours, training, quality of staff, exposure to the industry and opportunities. I'm sure Unis like Chichester must find it hard to charge £9,000 and give 30-40 hours contact time a week, which is what it takes, due to the cost. Most Uni degrees barely offer 10 hours a week.

[bop2thetop]

Yes Ibm1e14 it is quite a debate and I completely agree with you. From the people I know that have gone in to the industry they have all studied at the well know schools. I'm not saying places like Chichester or Wolverhampton don't have any body that has been successful I really hope they have. But I don't know of anyone. like you said it would be really useful for parents to know how people get on when they graduate from the uni courses, especially because they are affordable. Please let us know if anyone knows somebody

[jennifer1972]

We had an interesting link a few months ago talking about just that, a few months back viewtopic.php?f=36&t=22193
It seems like there are mixed views concerning Chichester.

[lbm1e14]

Hi Jennifer1972. Getting old. I even chipped in on that thread. Totally forgot!

[jennifer1972]

Hi Jennifer1972. Getting old. I even chipped in on that thread. Totally forgot!

Happens to us all!!

[bop2thetop]

Hi Jennifer1972. Getting old. I even chipped in on that thread. Totally forgot!

I commented too. And also forgot. Still none the wiser

[lbm1e14]

I re-read the whole thread bop2thetop and like you and am none the wiser. To be honest I'm none the wiser as to outcomes from anywhere. The "big" MT colleges don't publish any useful data so none knows what the outcomes are. A lot of the leads/main roles in the West End come from these colleges but there are so few of those roles available that one wonders what the hundreds of other grads they turn out between them are doing.

[islandofsodor]

Graduate employment & the type of employment is one of the areas that OFSTED & Trinity look into when inspecting Dada schools/colleges

[performmum]

Thanks for posting that. My DD has her audition there in Jan and as we live abroad, just to know that if successful, she wouldn't have to fly back over is great. I just assumed that they all did funding auditions. Did you find it useful going to the Open Day? What was your impression of the place?

We both thought it was a good Open Day - got to sit in on 3 classes. The college has it's own Gym, physiotherapist, which is good. The staff seemed really nice and we was very impressed by the performances that we saw at the end, including some students that only started 7 weeks ago. I think it will be on my DD's list to audition for next academic year. It is in a strange area (I thought) as no where near anything really, except houses, not that it matters as all the students are probably so tired as apparently the day is from 8-8.30am until 6.00pm and even later when you get to Year 3, you don't need to be near anything I guess. We both liked it and I talked with the Principal, one to one, she was very nice. One thing to mention is that the principal said that no DaDa awards will be given out before the end of March as they are not told how much of a por of money until early March.

Yes, I know what you mean about the area. My best friend lives within walking distance, so I have driven past it a few times, but never ventured inside. It looks like a nice, new, modern building, compared to Millenium where we were a couple of weeks ago. It will be interesting to compare the facilities.

My DD is in her 3rd year at Performers, so thought that it might be useful to post something about our experience. Please feel free to Pm me if you have any questions.
My DD was offered places at Millennium, Urdang, and Performers. We spoke to lots of people in and around the industry on the best choice for her. We decided on Performers for a number of factors - despite our reservations on the area.
I agree it is a strange place, really just a commuter town, however the students all form a really close community with each other and there are lots of `house` events. The commute to London is also really quick and there is good shopping in Lakeside.
If you decide that this is where you want to go then get on to the housing situation as soon as you get the list - getting a decent house is difficult.

In first year my DD was finishing v late most night any time between 6-30 and 8pm - although I think the 8Pm finishes have now been stopped.
They start at 8am every day with no excuses.
They work them very hard in 1st year. 2nd Year seemed a bit gentler ( still tough going at times ). Third year is very full on and there is a huge amount of pressure on the students. I understand why - the world they are entering is tough with long unsociable hours and I guess if they cant hack the life in college then they wont have any chance in the big wide world.

Having an on site Gym and physio is a huge benefit - the gym is available for the students free of charge and does mean that they can really work on their fitness.

They have a good mix of lessons across all 3 years and have some excellent teachers - some who have been principles in the West end in the past and some who are still active in the West End. They also have a range of specialist classes from specialised areas.

The college has a nice community feel to it and the students across all the years do look out for each other, which is nice to know when they are so far away from home.
At the end of last year the show programme showed that at least 50% of students already had work to go to.
They have just been re accredited to run the Trinity Diploma and the assessment of this does include a measure of how well the students do post completion of the course. You can of course read the Ofsead reports for all colleges offering diplomas. These are a good measure of the college.

In honesty there is not much to choose between any of the top colleges, I think that it would be easy to get lost in the system in some of the bigger colleges with more students. This is an industry with big characters and some people just make less noise!!

Happy to answer any questions if you want jut PM me and I will be as honest as I can

[jennifer1972]

We both thought it was a good Open Day - got to sit in on 3 classes. The college has it's own Gym, physiotherapist, which is good. The staff seemed really nice and we was very impressed by the performances that we saw at the end, including some students that only started 7 weeks ago. I think it will be on my DD's list to audition for next academic year. It is in a strange area (I thought) as no where near anything really, except houses, not that it matters as all the students are probably so tired as apparently the day is from 8-8.30am until 6.00pm and even later when you get to Year 3, you don't need to be near anything I guess. We both liked it and I talked with the Principal, one to one, she was very nice. One thing to mention is that the principal said that no DaDa awards will be given out before the end of March as they are not told how much of a por of money until early March.

Yes, I know what you mean about the area. My best friend lives within walking distance, so I have driven past it a few times, but never ventured inside. It looks like a nice, new, modern building, compared to Millenium where we were a couple of weeks ago. It will be interesting to compare the facilities.

My DD is in her 3rd year at Performers, so thought that it might be useful to post something about our experience. Please feel free to Pm me if you have any questions.
My DD was offered places at Millennium, Urdang, and Performers. We spoke to lots of people in and around the industry on the best choice for her. We decided on Performers for a number of factors - despite our reservations on the area.
I agree it is a strange place, really just a commuter town, however the students all form a really close community with each other and there are lots of `house` events. The commute to London is also really quick and there is good shopping in Lakeside.
If you decide that this is where you want to go then get on to the housing situation as soon as you get the list - getting a decent house is difficult.

In first year my DD was finishing v late most night any time between 6-30 and 8pm - although I think the 8Pm finishes have now been stopped.
They start at 8am every day with no excuses.
They work them very hard in 1st year. 2nd Year seemed a bit gentler ( still tough going at times ). Third year is very full on and there is a huge amount of pressure on the students. I understand why - the world they are entering is tough with long unsociable hours and I guess if they cant hack the life in college then they wont have any chance in the big wide world.

Having an on site Gym and physio is a huge benefit - the gym is available for the students free of charge and does mean that they can really work on their fitness.

They have a good mix of lessons across all 3 years and have some excellent teachers - some who have been principles in the West end in the past and some who are still active in the West End. They also have a range of specialist classes from specialised areas.

The college has a nice community feel to it and the students across all the years do look out for each other, which is nice to know when they are so far away from home.
At the end of last year the show programme showed that at least 50% of students already had work to go to.
They have just been re accredited to run the Trinity Diploma and the assessment of this does include a measure of how well the students do post completion of the course. You can of course read the Ofsead reports for all colleges offering diplomas. These are a good measure of the college.

In honesty there is not much to choose between any of the top colleges, I think that it would be easy to get lost in the system in some of the bigger colleges with more students. This is an industry with big characters and some people just make less noise!!

Happy to answer any questions if you want jut PM me and I will be as honest as I can

Thanks for that. It's so nice to get opinions of people with DCs going through training. I suppose my only concern about Performers is that if it's focus is more on dance than singing and acting, as some people have posted previously. Would you agree with that? Ideally, we are looking for a good balance of all 3. Also, what plans do your DD and the other students have post training? Does it all hang on how they do in the showcase and whether they get an agent or not? From what you said it would seem many of them have things lined up before that, so does that mean they are auditioning whilst training and get jobs without having first got an agent? I know I'm jumping the gun a bit but these are important choices for our DCs. We are there in January and my DD is really looking forward to it!

[Katymac]

At Performers in second year they split between Dance Theatre & Musical Theatre; MT do more acting & Singing, DT do less but still have classes

DD loves it - the end of year show was great & even DD as a first year was 'noticed' at the end of year show - She danced at Wembly last year and is starting to think about auditioning for pantomimes for next year

I think it's been excellent for her & despite all the angst choosing I think we made the right decision

[jennifer1972]

At Performers in second year they split between Dance Theatre & Musical Theatre; MT do more acting & Singing, DT do less but still have classes

DD loves it - the end of year show was great & even DD as a first year was 'noticed' at the end of year show - She danced at Wembly last year and is starting to think about auditioning for pantomimes for next year

I think it's been excellent for her & despite all the angst choosing I think we made the right decision

It's lovely to know she is getting on so well! I'm sure her future will be very bright!!

[performmum]

[quote="performmum

Thanks for that. It's so nice to get opinions of people with DCs going through training. I suppose my only concern about Performers is that if it's focus is more on dance than singing and acting, as some people have posted previously. Would you agree with that? Ideally, we are looking for a good balance of all 3. Also, what plans do your DD and the other students have post training? Does it all hang on how they do in the showcase and whether they get an agent or not? From what you said it would seem many of them have things lined up before that, so does that mean they are auditioning whilst training and get jobs without having first got an agent? I know I'm jumping the gun a bit but these are important choices for our DCs. We are there in January and my DD is really looking forward to it!

Hi,
My DD is very much an MT, and we agree that in respect to places such as Mountview or Arts Ed, Performers is still classed as a dance college. However when compared to places like Laine, Urdang, Bird it is the same mix of DT & MT. As an MT she gets solo and ensemble singing, acting through song and acting and voice each week. As well as a all of the dance disciplines. She is v much a triple threat performer. So the balance has been good. She sees herself in classic MT stuff not the commercial dance stuff. However any work will be good. We all know how tough it is. In third year they can go to audition as they need and the college is v supportive of the process. They are all signed by the in house agency in third year and then following the showcase may pick up another agent. The agency does not keep them on their books - only a few seem to get to stay.
My DD is in panto this year and it's lovely to see her doing her job".
Whatever your choices -'good luck - it's certainly a rocky road.

[jennifer1972]

[quote="performmum

Thanks for that. It's so nice to get opinions of people with DCs going through training. I suppose my only concern about Performers is that if it's focus is more on dance than singing and acting, as some people have posted previously. Would you agree with that? Ideally, we are looking for a good balance of all 3. Also, what plans do your DD and the other students have post training? Does it all hang on how they do in the showcase and whether they get an agent or not? From what you said it would seem many of them have things lined up before that, so does that mean they are auditioning whilst training and get jobs without having first got an agent? I know I'm jumping the gun a bit but these are important choices for our DCs. We are there in January and my DD is really looking forward to it!

Hi,
My DD is very much an MT, and we agree that in respect to places such as Mountview or Arts Ed, Performers is still classed as a dance college. However when compared to places like Laine, Urdang, Bird it is the same mix of DT & MT. As an MT she gets solo and ensemble singing, acting through song and acting and voice each week. As well as a all of the dance disciplines. She is v much a triple threat performer. So the balance has been good. She sees herself in classic MT stuff not the commercial dance stuff. However any work will be good. We all know how tough it is. In third year they can go to audition as they need and the college is v supportive of the process. They are all signed by the in house agency in third year and then following the showcase may pick up another agent. The agency does not keep them on their books - only a few seem to get to stay.
My DD is in panto this year and it's lovely to see her doing her job".
Whatever your choices -'good luck - it's certainly a rocky road.

Thanks again, that's a great insight. As my DD has been offered the singing/acting strand of the MT BA at Millenium, I have asked for a rough breakdown of hours per subject to then compare against other places. At the end of the day, I suppose DD has the final choice and wherever she goes, it is what she makes of the opportunity, rather than if she has one less hour of a certain class than she would have had somewhere else