Which route?

A place to talk about full time schools and post 16 training.

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Dixie37
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Re: Which route?

Post by Dixie37 »

My daughter applied for September 2016 to do the Level 6 at 3 colleges. She didn't get into any of them. We had been fairly sure that this would be the outcome, however she had a friend going too and wanted the invaluable audition experience. Her friend is now having a fabulous time on the Diploma course at Bird. My daughter is at a local college doing a BTEC Extended Diploma in Musical Theatre. She also attends a fabulous local dance school. Her BTEC is definitely hitting the mark with the acting and singing, however as previous posters have said, the dance element isn't of a high enough standard to push her. She working towards her ISTD Advanced 1 Level in her tap and modern and Grade 7 ballet alongside doing jazz, limbering, contemporary and street classes, so I am happy that she will be in a strong position ready to audition again for degree courses at 18. The BTEC she is on was her very last resort - it wasn't even on her list of preferences. Having said that she loves it and she says she is definitely in the right place! She is also able to do the BTEC Certificate in Dance, equivalent to another A Level and will do this in her second year.

Feedback I have from my daughters friend and others persuing vocational training is that decisions are made based on what the audition panel see with their own eyes, rather than grades achieved.
lbm1e14
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Re: Which route?

Post by lbm1e14 »

Dixie37 wrote:Feedback I have from my daughters friend and others persuing vocational training is that decisions are made based on what the audition panel see with their own eyes, rather than grades achieved.
This is so true and why one "reputable" college will almost make an offer on the spot to a given candidate who then doesn't necessarily get an offer from another.

Also I agree with previous comments about what the objective is here. It's about getting the best training you can get and getting work afterwards. Dream colleges don't necessarily get you work. I harp back to previous comments I've made about the total lack of statistics from "dream" and "reputable" colleges. If you add it up the top 10/15 colleges alone are churning out probably close on 750 students a year (has anyone actually done a study on this?). How much work is out there? And you don't just get the job because you went to the colleges so often mentioned on this forum. Back to auditions again. They never say they guarantee you work but they don't do much to let you know what you can realistically expect as an outcome.
Dixie37
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Re: Which route?

Post by Dixie37 »

The destinations data provided by colleges generally only gives details of where they go to first from college, so everyone might got that first job and then never work again! I think the only way I have any idea is by following ex students from my daughters dance school to see where they went on to. Some are on cruise ships, one (male) has toured with a musical and is now on a high profile tour, one is teaching dance abroad, one is an fitness instructor ... Success comes in different forms!!
lbm1e14
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Re: Which route?

Post by lbm1e14 »

Indeed dixie37. The problem is that for 3 years at £13,000 (ish), less funding if any, plus living costs, it's all anecdotal evidence. Some of these colleges take in millions in a year so I'm not sure why they don't find the resource to give stats on how amazingly successful their students are. Too lazy? Applicants and parents maybe aren't interested? Outcomes not all they would have you believe for the majority of students?

I totally agree success comes in many forms and success means different things to different people so maybe it's just too hard to measure. My gut tells me though that they could all do much better.
2dancersmum
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Re: Which route?

Post by 2dancersmum »

I think part of the problem of giving statistics is that it is very difficult to measure success and especially given the nature of the industry they are going into. I think Dixie hit the nail on the head. Any list of destinations is just that - possible destinations and gives no indication of length of contract or how much a graduate works after leaving the college and certainly not an indication of percentage of how many students gained work. I have followed the paths of students from DD's college - from those who graduated a few years before to a few years after her. Some have worked almost constantly in the past 3 years, others had a very good contract for six , nine months or a year after graduation but have been auditioning unsuccessfully for the next 12 months or more. Others have had numerous short contracts - 3 months performing, 6 months regular jobs, 3 months performing, 2 months out of work etc. And others have taken a good year to get that first contract but then worked almost constantly thereafter. One of DDs older school friends who went to a different college to train vocationally is listed on her college website as a success story (still performing) - since graduation she moved back home but does panto (paid) every year and is part of an amateur theatre company that does biannual productions. The rest of the time she works in an office. That's how misleading statistics can be
lbm1e14
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Re: Which route?

Post by lbm1e14 »

Hi 2dancersmum. I agree with everything you say but I'm not sure that the conclusion should be that it's impossible to give any data or stats at all and leave everyone guessing. Or having to painstakingly work it out and even then you can only do it if you have names to work with so by definition can only do it when your DC has been to a college. I just feel that the so-called dream establishments who get good representation in the West End shows by literally a handful of alumni somehow live off that to take in 100 plus people a year of whom a handful will get that quality of work. Surely they could come up with something. I suppose what I'm saying is that there is no measure of strength in depth. But I'm under no illusion that it will change because I'm firmly of the view that the reason there is no data is primarily because it would demonstrate, once consolidated across the training industry, that they are training for too many students at very high cost when there is not enough work available. I say this from a stand back perspective and not because we are not caught up in it. DD is currently in training so like everyone else we're giving her her dream at great expense and hoping she will be one of the lucky ones. Like everyone else there was no data to help us choose and I do somewhat resent that.
2dancersmum
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Re: Which route?

Post by 2dancersmum »

I just don't know how they can give any reliable statisitics, although I do get where you are coming from. But for the vast majority of graduates, work is on contracts of various lengths and sometimes seasonal too so from month to month the % employed will vary. Colleges in the past were asked to report back on the destinations of students they had given DADAs to - I think as part of the college's application for future DADA allocations - this is what I heard from various parents of graduates whose DC had been contacted a few years after graduation with a form to fill in. This is when DADAs were standard awards and not means tested (2012) but I would presume this would continue so it is a little bit of behind the scenes regulation to make sure the colleges are doing their job, though not much use to students and their parents when applying and auditioning.
martint
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Re: Which route?

Post by martint »

I see shows very regularly in the west end. Looking in the programmes it's always the same four college students which dominate but you do get some from other colleges and unis.
Rose20
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Re: Which route?

Post by Rose20 »

Hi, did the programmes say which qualification was studied at the four main colleges? It's sometimes hard to see if they have trained at a couple of colleges and to which level qualification, such as foundation up to post grad courses. Is it possible that some performers choose the most well known college they trained at to put in their bio's?
Dixie37
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Re: Which route?

Post by Dixie37 »

I used to work at an FE college and one of my jobs was to collect destinations data for the art students. I literally had to ring their last contact number, rely on staff knowing or knowing someone who knew! These students could have gone to great Uni but drop out within the first term but their destination was recorded as at uni. All very unsatisfactory
martint
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Re: Which route?

Post by martint »

Rose20 wrote:Hi, did the programmes say which qualification was studied at the four main colleges? It's sometimes hard to see if they have trained at a couple of colleges and to which level qualification, such as foundation up to post grad courses. Is it possible that some performers choose the most well known college they trained at to put in their bio's?
Casting directors aren't interested if the candidate has done a degree, diploma or even had formal training. They only look at what's in front of them.
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Caroline A-C
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Re: Which route?

Post by Caroline A-C »

I know at Arts Ed, you are not allowed to put that is where you studied unless you complete at least two of the three years on the Diploma/BA course. I would imagine that most of the known colleges follow suit.
All new to me!
ajbew
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Re: Which route?

Post by ajbew »

martint wrote:I see shows very regularly in the west end. Looking in the programmes it's always the same four college students which dominate but you do get some from other colleges and unis.
I was just interested to know which four colleges you are talking about?
lotsolaffs
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Re: Which route?

Post by lotsolaffs »

Ooh I'm going to guess which 4.
Arts Ed
GSA
Laine's
Mountview.
Anyone else?
islandofsodor
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Re: Which route?

Post by islandofsodor »

I'd replace GSA with Bird but it does depend on whether it's a more acting heavy or dance heavy show.
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