Best value Foundation courses?

A place to talk about full time schools and post 16 training.

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DanceDiva
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Re: Best value Foundation courses?

Post by DanceDiva »

My DD did Foundation at Bodyworks and it was hugely positive experience for her.

She was just 16 when she moved away.
We were having to travel 120 mile round trip 2 x or 3 x week for her CAT scheme anyway so whatever route she took it was likely she would have to be residential somewhere.
She was adamant she didn't want A Levels and we had to respect that - despite pressure from grandparents !
( they had insisted I did them and it was the worst 2 years of my life ! )

There is a huge step from dance classes after school and being full time at college.
My DD struggled physically for the first couple of terms, needed physio and was exhausted all the time.
But she got on with it, pastoral care from the college was exceptional and she matured beyond belief.
She saw first hand the difference between Foundation and Diploma and lived with first years who mothered her and saved her when she microwaved a tin of soup, lost her keys / ballet shoe / was sick
We got to see less and less of the feisty teenager and more and more of the independent young lady.

Bodyworks encourage the younger students into doing Foundation - their bodies may not be ready for the more mature student classes and they see many more injuries as they try 'to keep up'
Living away from home is a HUGE step at 16 for student and for parents and their support of both was incredible - they would ring me without fail to reassure me or calm me down when a 'meltdown' occurred.

I know this is probably true for all courses at all colleges but to us it was the perfect way to see if DD ( or her mum ) would cope.
We never considered it as a money making exercise for college - they invested so much time and money into DD during that foundation year I'd call it quits !
My DD is now in first year at BW and living with foundies and helping them through exactly what she went through.
Just our experience - and the fact we found it so positive
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2girlsmum
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Re: Best value Foundation courses?

Post by 2girlsmum »

My DD attends a part time Performing Arts School at the weekends and has been doing an Extended Level 3 BTECH at a local college. We/she have taken great interest in the paths of the older students getting to her stage over the last couple of years. The Principal of the PA School is a great believer that if you get offered a place on a Foundation Course, they have identified that the DC has talent and potential but is not yet quite ready for level at degree/diploma. So this means that they need to continue with training. The Principal says that you either have to increase your current training (if you stay with the groups you are currently with) so that you gain even more OR take the Foundation Place, where you will be doing full time but not quite at the same level as the diploma/degree course.

Yes, taking the Foundation Place is expensive, but try to equate it to what you would be spending if they stayed doing what they usually do, plus the extra's they will need to take to increase their training.

No, there is no guarantee of a place, but their confidence alone will be much higher when they enter the audition room, which I think, sometimes can make all the difference.

We personally only know successful stories about Foundies going on to taking places but I know it's not always the case.

I would also like to say that knowing your own child and what you realistically think they will be able to cope with is very important. We know of a student that accepted a diploma place at a very well known MT college last Sept but really hasn't enjoyed it at all, to the point that they left the course in Jan and is now auditioning again to find an alternative to start in Sept.

I agree with all the previous points made and agree that it is everyone's own personal choice. For us, had DD only been offered a Foundation Place at one of the main colleges she/we would have taken it.
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oscar
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Re: Best value Foundation courses?

Post by oscar »

Getting a place on a foundation at GSA is certainly not a guaranteed key to the degree. They do not take that many students from the foundation as it can in no way be seen as a feeder course ,where foundation students get priority. The audition process is identical. The course is amazing though and they get long contact hours and really get work on their disciplines and audition skills, so from that point of view it's invaluable .We never saw it as a money making exercise and felt It was value for money . At Arts their foundation students audition differently to everyone else and I am unsure of the percentage that stay but ,it is by no means all of them. For those considering Bird as a foundation for schools other than dance , I have heard that the singing is small proportion of the course. If doing a foundation look at the package carefully would be my advice.
chivers61
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Re: Best value Foundation courses?

Post by chivers61 »

There are also a number of colleges out there who only provide one Year foundation courses. From what we know anecdotally they seem to be successful in getting their candidates in to the diploma courses.

Great advice from oscar. Not all foundatiom courses offer the same level of content in all disciplines so it is important to know what the end game is.
Robin64
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Re: Best value Foundation courses?

Post by Robin64 »

From GSA recall audition i would say Oscar is spot on. The foundation is not a guaranteed feeder for the degree. However successful students had done foundations at other colleges. Onwards and upwards...
klchaplin1980
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Re: Best value Foundation courses?

Post by klchaplin1980 »

jennifer1972 wrote:We were quite impressed by Evolution when we went for the audition. The students were so positive and upbeat and obviously having the time of their lives. The only sticking point for me was that every student I spoke to was advised to go on to audition at 10, 11, 12 colleges all over the country, some at places I had never heard of (and I have heard of most :lol: ). This would involve a huge expense for the parents. I know they want to keep their 100% record of getting their students into places but it seemed a bit excessive.
This really got me thinking so I went through the Evolution twitter feed and found these as places the students had auditioned at which are not level 6 Diplomas: Scene 2 , Tiffany Theatre College, Masters, Wilkes Academy and Centre PAC. My daughter has accepted her place at Evolution and I know they advise where to apply but surely they can't make people. A lot of Foundation courses have Level 3, Level 4 or Grade 8 Musical Theatre qualifications within them and Evolution don't so there is no way my daughter will be auditioning for anything that isn't Trinity College level 6. Bird College also said that auditionees should always look for that level 6 Diploma or degree qualification when applying. I really hope they don't try and push otherwise just to ensure protecting their statistics!!
chivers61
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Re: Best value Foundation courses?

Post by chivers61 »

klchaplin1980 wrote:
jennifer1972 wrote:We were quite impressed by Evolution when we went for the audition. The students were so positive and upbeat and obviously having the time of their lives. The only sticking point for me was that every student I spoke to was advised to go on to audition at 10, 11, 12 colleges all over the country, some at places I had never heard of (and I have heard of most :lol: ). This would involve a huge expense for the parents. I know they want to keep their 100% record of getting their students into places but it seemed a bit excessive.
This really got me thinking so I went through the Evolution twitter feed and found these as places the students had auditioned at which are not level 6 Diplomas: Scene 2 , Tiffany Theatre College, Masters, Wilkes Academy and Centre PAC. My daughter has accepted her place at Evolution and I know they advise where to apply but surely they can't make people. A lot of Foundation courses have Level 3, Level 4 or Grade 8 Musical Theatre qualifications within them and Evolution don't so there is no way my daughter will be auditioning for anything that isn't Trinity College level 6. Bird College also said that auditionees should always look for that level 6 Diploma or degree qualification when applying. I really hope they don't try and push otherwise just to ensure protecting their statistics!!
Bird would say that because they are part of the system. I beg to differ about the level 6 qualification for one simple reason. It is no guarantee of future success. There are colleges who are doing everything and indeed more than level 6 requires but just refuse to pay the exorbitant fees to be assessed and accredited and we have excellent student outcomes. Just because you come out with a level 6 or degree qualification will guarantee you nothing at all other than a certain minimum level and quality of training and a guarantee that the establishment has ticked all the boxes. It's all about outcomes and getting paid work afterwards. You don't get work because you have a level 6 diploma or a degree.
klchaplin1980
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Re: Best value Foundation courses?

Post by klchaplin1980 »

chivers61 wrote:
klchaplin1980 wrote:
jennifer1972 wrote:We were quite impressed by Evolution when we went for the audition. The students were so positive and upbeat and obviously having the time of their lives. The only sticking point for me was that every student I spoke to was advised to go on to audition at 10, 11, 12 colleges all over the country, some at places I had never heard of (and I have heard of most :lol: ). This would involve a huge expense for the parents. I know they want to keep their 100% record of getting their students into places but it seemed a bit excessive.
This really got me thinking so I went through the Evolution twitter feed and found these as places the students had auditioned at which are not level 6 Diplomas: Scene 2 , Tiffany Theatre College, Masters, Wilkes Academy and Centre PAC. My daughter has accepted her place at Evolution and I know they advise where to apply but surely they can't make people. A lot of Foundation courses have Level 3, Level 4 or Grade 8 Musical Theatre qualifications within them and Evolution don't so there is no way my daughter will be auditioning for anything that isn't Trinity College level 6. Bird College also said that auditionees should always look for that level 6 Diploma or degree qualification when applying. I really hope they don't try and push otherwise just to ensure protecting their statistics!!
Bird would say that because they are part of the system. I beg to differ about the level 6 qualification for one simple reason. It is no guarantee of future success. There are colleges who are doing everything and indeed more than level 6 requires but just refuse to pay the exorbitant fees to be assessed and accredited and we have excellent student outcomes. Just because you come out with a level 6 or degree qualification will guarantee you nothing at all other than a certain minimum level and quality of training and a guarantee that the establishment has ticked all the boxes. It's all about outcomes and getting paid work afterwards. You don't get work because you have a level 6 diploma or a degree.
Yes I see what you are saying with this but personally I would like my daughter to have qualifications to fall back on if at some point she decides she would like to teach drama or music in a school for example. Having only GCSEs could be a very frustrating position after all those years of hard work if a career in the industry does not work out as hoped.
chivers61
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Re: Best value Foundation courses?

Post by chivers61 »

Likewise point taken klchaplin1980. Everyone goes into training with a different perspective and from a different starting points in terms of academic qualifications. It is a tough business and not everyone makes it.
jennifer1972
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Re: Best value Foundation courses?

Post by jennifer1972 »

klchaplin1980 wrote:
jennifer1972 wrote:We were quite impressed by Evolution when we went for the audition. The students were so positive and upbeat and obviously having the time of their lives. The only sticking point for me was that every student I spoke to was advised to go on to audition at 10, 11, 12 colleges all over the country, some at places I had never heard of (and I have heard of most :lol: ). This would involve a huge expense for the parents. I know they want to keep their 100% record of getting their students into places but it seemed a bit excessive.
This really got me thinking so I went through the Evolution twitter feed and found these as places the students had auditioned at which are not level 6 Diplomas: Scene 2 , Tiffany Theatre College, Masters, Wilkes Academy and Centre PAC. My daughter has accepted her place at Evolution and I know they advise where to apply but surely they can't make people. A lot of Foundation courses have Level 3, Level 4 or Grade 8 Musical Theatre qualifications within them and Evolution don't so there is no way my daughter will be auditioning for anything that isn't Trinity College level 6. Bird College also said that auditionees should always look for that level 6 Diploma or degree qualification when applying. I really hope they don't try and push otherwise just to ensure protecting their statistics!!
They all seemed really lovely there, so I'm sure you would have the final say as you will be the one paying for the next round of auditions. Best of luck to your DD, I'm sure it will be a fantastic experience!!
islandofsodor
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Re: Best value Foundation courses?

Post by islandofsodor »

Whilst I have a lot of respect for Bird (after all my husband used to teach there) I would say that not all students are ready for a Level 6 diploma aged 16. To use Wilkes Academy as an example (I use there as I know several teachers etc there) yes, they 'only' offer a Level 3 Btec but that is a valid qualification equivalent to A levels. Students who graduate can either audition for professional work or go onto a degree course in a related subject.

To me the important thing is that the training is not only excellent but that the college is accountable to someone, whether that be OFTED/Trinity in the case of Level 6 Dada funded diplomas, HEFCE in the case of degrees or an accredited examining body. A few friends have had their fingers burnt badly both financially and pastorally at private institutions that appear to have no accountability (mostly in the ballet not MT world but the same principles apply.
kzgirl
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Re: Best value Foundation courses?

Post by kzgirl »

Hello Everyone

I am a little confused about doing a foundation course at aged 16yrs. These courses cost around £7500 per year plus living expenses on top. I guess it must work out around £15,000 for the year. Okay this will prepare your child for the next stage which could be the level 6 diploma or the degree. I am reading all the time that it is so difficult to get work in the industry because it is also about the look body shape size etc even if you are good. At 16 there are plenty of local colleges/schools whereby your child can obtain the BTEC level 3 for free as part of the education system. This puts your child at aged 18 in a position for the next stage, whether it be a college or a Uni. If you have already spent out around £15,000 at aged 16 to 17 on a foundation surely this money would be better spent after obtaining the BTEC level 3 under the state education system. Am I interpreting this wrong but in my opinion there is no need for a foundation course at 16. I could understand paying at 16 for the level 6 diploma as this is higher education but the foundation courses aren't. Maybe I think this way as our finances wouldn't support a foundation course.
JayLou62
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Re: Best value Foundation courses?

Post by JayLou62 »

Dd2 did a Foundation course over a BTEC as she was working at RAD Adv2 Ballet and ISTD Adv 1 Tap and Modern. The Foundation course meant she kept her dance level high whilst working on her weaker aspects of acting and singing. Her Foundation course tutors were from Bristol Old Vic, Bird, GSA, London Studio Centre etc. Her Foundation course cost £1200 (they also now offer the BTEC which is fully funded and a top up of dancing, singing and acting classes for £1200). Dd2 did the part time Foundation course (2 full days) and part time at a local private dance college (3 full days). She auditioned for 6 schools last year and got places at all 6 (5 Diploma offers and 1 Foundation offer) and 3 DaDAs.
For her, it was worth doing the Foundation and she had no accommodation costs as she lived at home :)
lyndahill
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Re: Best value Foundation courses?

Post by lyndahill »

JayLou62 wrote:Dd2 did a Foundation course over a BTEC as she was working at RAD Adv2 Ballet and ISTD Adv 1 Tap and Modern. The Foundation course meant she kept her dance level high whilst working on her weaker aspects of acting and singing. Her Foundation course tutors were from Bristol Old Vic, Bird, GSA, London Studio Centre etc. Her Foundation course cost £1200 (they also now offer the BTEC which is fully funded and a top up of dancing, singing and acting classes for £1200). Dd2 did the part time Foundation course (2 full days) and part time at a local private dance college (3 full days). She auditioned for 6 schools last year and got places at all 6 (5 Diploma offers and 1 Foundation offer) and 3 DaDAs.
For her, it was worth doing the Foundation and she had no accommodation costs as she lived at home :)
May I ask where your DD did a Foundation for £1200?
JayLou62
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Re: Best value Foundation courses?

Post by JayLou62 »

The Big Act - it was more expensive for dd2 than £1200 as The Big Act have only just started doing the BTEC (September 2015) and dd2 was 17 so couldn't do the BTEC as she was part time. She still had private singing classes plus dance, acting and singing (group) over 2 full days, performed at Move It, was in 1 play and 1 Musical and a Christmas show.
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