Dance - help me convince DS

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biscuitsneeded
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Dance - help me convince DS

Post by biscuitsneeded »

DS is 12. He says he wants to perform when he grows up - probably musical theatre. He's had a bit of success, got into NYMT twice and done local shows, professional panto etc. He's been doing ballet for a couple of years and recently started another dance program which I won't name because I don't want to be totally outed to anyone who doesn't know this is me already!
He loves acting and singing but says he's just not so fond of dance. This is frustrating because although he's not necessarily Royal Ballet material, his ballet teacher rates him, his local part time theatre school rate him as a dancer, and just watching him it's clear he can do it. He might not be Carlos Acosta but he definitely has more grace than most. But it's such a battle to get him to go to dance lessons - he always complains and says it's boring and/or hard work and it's not his thing. I'd be fine to just let him stop if he didn't claim to want to be a performer later. I keep telling him that in 6 years if he's applying to MT training, being able to dance will be a HUGE advantage and he'd be silly not to stick at it. He just tries to blame the various classes he does and insists there must be better ones out there, but really I think he just wants to have his cake and eat it - have the fun of performing without the graft and discipline of learning to dance properly.
I'd be interested to see what all you knowledgeable types have to say about this. Should I let him stop, or would he regret it later? I don't mind if he ends up performing or doing something else entirely, but I think if he says he wants to perform he should be willing to work hard to give himself the greatest chance of succeeding. But perhaps I'm wrong. If any of you reply I will show him your answers so he can see we've opened the debate up to those who know and whatever the verdict we'll each know at least we got some good advice! Thanks in advance.
lbm1e14
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Re: Dance - help me convince DS

Post by lbm1e14 »

Hi biscuitsneeded. A tough one indeed! There is no correct answer but you might want to consider that as he is only 12 there is time to step back a bit from dance if you can't find classes which inspire him. There is time to take a break and restart in plenty time for auditions at 18. If he wants to do MT rather than dance then dance won't be he be all and end all of auditions. He sounds like a naturally talented dancer so should not struggle. If however he plans to try to get into Bird, Urdang, Laine for example then dance is perhaps more important. But even if he started again at 14 he has 3 full years before auditions. There is no point in forcing classes on him as it may have a detrimental impact. Young minds are complicated. That's not a very structured reply but I hope it makes sense.
chivers61
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Re: Dance - help me convince DS

Post by chivers61 »

We had a similar challenge with DD. Started singing lessons at about 12 and she didn't enjoy them. Said the singing teacher was ruining her voice! We stopped them. She restarted with that same teacher (having done Trinity Guildhall grades 4-7 with a peripatetic singing teacher at school) who she then loved second time round and did grade 8 with. She also made bad choices for dance which we admittedly went along with. Chose to go to a "recreational" dance school which didn't really "do" exams, because her friends went there - none of whom had any interest in pursuing performing arts as a career. We pulled her out just in time and crammed in a distinction at grade 7 ballet and grade 5 jazz in 2 years! She is now in full time MT itraining in London. She certainly did it the hard way, but your DS has plenty time.
Barton285
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Re: Dance - help me convince DS

Post by Barton285 »

Have you looked at West End Kids where they do dancing and singing, if he got into the troupe they perform all over the place which may encourage his dancing!
lyndahill
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Re: Dance - help me convince DS

Post by lyndahill »

Why not - if you can - let him do Easter and Summer schools at some of the MT colleges, most of them do them and then he will get an idea as to what would be required and you can also talk to the teachers afterwards, they'll tell him the level he would need in 4-6 years time. If he wants to attend Bird College or anywhere like that I would say he'll need some dance training.
biscuitsneeded
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Re: Dance - help me convince DS

Post by biscuitsneeded »

Thanks so much for all replies. Barton that is a good suggestion. We are a bit too far from London for me to have time to make a regular weekly trip but in a couple of years he could do it independently if he's still wanting to do musical theatre by that point. And thanks also LyndaHill for the suggestion of Easter or summer courses at MT colleges. I think he would love this. At the moment he is very committed to NYMT in the holidays but another year he might well do as you suggest. I'd be grateful for any more thoughts as I am going to show DS this thread.
Robin64
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Re: Dance - help me convince DS

Post by Robin64 »

biscuitsneeded wrote:DS is 12. He says he wants to perform when he grows up - probably musical theatre. He's had a bit of success, got into NYMT twice and done local shows, professional panto etc. He's been doing ballet for a couple of years and recently started another dance program which I won't name because I don't want to be totally outed to anyone who doesn't know this is me already!
He loves acting and singing but says he's just not so fond of dance. This is frustrating because although he's not necessarily Royal Ballet material, his ballet teacher rates him, his local part time theatre school rate him as a dancer, and just watching him it's clear he can do it. He might not be Carlos Acosta but he definitely has more grace than most. But it's such a battle to get him to go to dance lessons - he always complains and says it's boring and/or hard work and it's not his thing. I'd be fine to just let him stop if he didn't claim to want to be a performer later. I keep telling him that in 6 years if he's applying to MT training, being able to dance will be a HUGE advantage and he'd be silly not to stick at it. He just tries to blame the various classes he does and insists there must be better ones out there, but really I think he just wants to have his cake and eat it - have the fun of performing without the graft and discipline of learning to dance properly.
I'd be interested to see what all you knowledgeable types have to say about this. Should I let him stop, or would he regret it later? I don't mind if he ends up performing or doing something else entirely, but I think if he says he wants to perform he should be willing to work hard to give himself the greatest chance of succeeding. But perhaps I'm wrong. If any of you reply I will show him your answers so he can see we've opened the debate up to those who know and whatever the verdict we'll each know at least we got some good advice! Thanks in advance.
As he is 12 i would back off and let him leave the dance for a while. It is a big transition time with school, hormones, growing, more homework etc keep it fun. There is plenty of time to go back and do a bit more dance later and he will be doing some with his other drama commitments like nymt. To be honest he could probably do some lessons nearer the time if he decides on training and be fine. Our friend's son didn't start dance til 15 or 16 and he became lead for Mathew Bourne.
Also urgh don't you hate that cajoling, or bickering about the clubs, hobbies thing? We've all been there probably with the swimming or the musical instrument practice. A little bit to make sure they are not just being a bit lazy or having an off week but if it goes on a bit i say just stop. It is not worth it. Your DS sounds very talented and dedicated anyway for a 12 year old. Cut him some slack on the dance.
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Caroline A-C
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Re: Dance - help me convince DS

Post by Caroline A-C »

My DS did the Musical Theatre BA at Arts Ed with no dance background so I would probably back off too. There was a total mix of boys having dance training and total novices so I wouldn't worry too much. Better to let him stop dancing now on his own terms rather than battle on and turn him totally off it altogether. That way, he may well decide to go back to it at a later date.
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biscuitsneeded
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Re: Dance - help me convince DS

Post by biscuitsneeded »

Wow, what an interesting and thoughtful array of responses - thank everyone. It seems most people feel I should let him stop for a bit and see if he comes back to it of his own volition. I'll try and keep him going until summer (since a lot is paid for already) and then let him decide for next year. It's interesting because all the professional dancers he chatted to in panto said to keep up the ballet if nothing else, but I guess they are dancers, which DS doesn't want to be necessarily.
I also wonder if I'd be getting the same advice if he was a girl!!
sotebirmingham
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Re: Dance - help me convince DS

Post by sotebirmingham »

I would take him to a couple of musicals like Les Miserables & 42 street and ask him if any which show would he see himself performing in? If he is inspired by the more dance based show then he needs to keep dancing if the acting based musicals are more his thing then let him give up dance. it's a hard buisness to get into and it takes hard work from a very young age. Even if he just kept up the ballet as it is brilliant for basic technique that would stand him in good stead for when he is older.
Robin64
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Re: Dance - help me convince DS

Post by Robin64 »

biscuitsneeded wrote:Wow, what an interesting and thoughtful array of responses - thank everyone. It seems most people feel I should let him stop for a bit and see if he comes back to it of his own volition. I'll try and keep him going until summer (since a lot is paid for already) and then let him decide for next year. It's interesting because all the professional dancers he chatted to in panto said to keep up the ballet if nothing else, but I guess they are dancers, which DS doesn't want to be necessarily.
I also wonder if I'd be getting the same advice if he was a girl!!
If you had a daughter who was really not enjoying dance i would probably give the same advice because at 12 lots of children change their interests and hobbies. However if they didn't like dance they probably would not go on to pursue MT but maybe drama route. There is no getting away from the fact that gaining a place for MT is much more competitive for girls and the bar is higher for them for dance (or barre :D ). They even said that at GSA recall. But you need to enjoy your dance and want to do it, dance is an Integral​ part of dd's life and has been for 15 years, she would be devastated not to do it & has never wavered really. If you had a DD that was fed up i would probably say keep going until absolutely sure she didn't like it or try different dance school, classes etc then if she still didn't like it change direction. At 12 it needs to be fun and boys do have some leeway with dance, that's just how it is.
lawn
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Re: Dance - help me convince DS

Post by lawn »

Robin64 wrote:
biscuitsneeded wrote:Wow, what an interesting and thoughtful array of responses - thank everyone. It seems most people feel I should let him stop for a bit and see if he comes back to it of his own volition. I'll try and keep him going until summer (since a lot is paid for already) and then let him decide for next year. It's interesting because all the professional dancers he chatted to in panto said to keep up the ballet if nothing else, but I guess they are dancers, which DS doesn't want to be necessarily.
I also wonder if I'd be getting the same advice if he was a girl!!
If you had a daughter who was really not enjoying dance i would probably give the same advice because at 12 lots of children change their interests and hobbies. However if they didn't like dance they probably would not go on to pursue MT but maybe drama route. There is no getting away from the fact that gaining a place for MT is much more competitive for girls and the bar is higher for them for dance (or barre :D ). They even said that at GSA recall. But you need to enjoy your dance and want to do it, dance is an Integral​ part of dd's life and has been for 15 years, she would be devastated not to do it & has never wavered really. If you had a DD that was fed up i would probably say keep going until absolutely sure she didn't like it or try different dance school, classes etc then if she still didn't like it change direction. At 12 it needs to be fun and boys do have some leeway with dance, that's just how it is.
Agree with this. My 13yo DD has been acting for a few years and it's her strongest skill. She has limited dance experience and toyed last year with trying for MT courses when old enough (I did a thread about it). I pointed out to her she'd be up against people who had been dancing since a lot younger age and were working at a higher standard. In order to get her there quick enough (if possible) she'd have to give up the hours she spends on acting and singing. We decided the best route for her would be the straight acting courses, even if they are difficult to get into from school. She did see my point and now has a plan B for what to do in the (likely) event of not getting on to her preferred course straight away and will also possibly give her some financial support during the student years.
chivers61
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Re: Dance - help me convince DS

Post by chivers61 »

lawn wrote:
Robin64 wrote:
biscuitsneeded wrote:Wow, what an interesting and thoughtful array of responses - thank everyone. It seems most people feel I should let him stop for a bit and see if he comes back to it of his own volition. I'll try and keep him going until summer (since a lot is paid for already) and then let him decide for next year. It's interesting because all the professional dancers he chatted to in panto said to keep up the ballet if nothing else, but I guess they are dancers, which DS doesn't want to be necessarily.
I also wonder if I'd be getting the same advice if he was a girl!!
If you had a daughter who was really not enjoying dance i would probably give the same advice because at 12 lots of children change their interests and hobbies. However if they didn't like dance they probably would not go on to pursue MT but maybe drama route. There is no getting away from the fact that gaining a place for MT is much more competitive for girls and the bar is higher for them for dance (or barre :D ). They even said that at GSA recall. But you need to enjoy your dance and want to do it, dance is an Integral​ part of dd's life and has been for 15 years, she would be devastated not to do it & has never wavered really. If you had a DD that was fed up i would probably say keep going until absolutely sure she didn't like it or try different dance school, classes etc then if she still didn't like it change direction. At 12 it needs to be fun and boys do have some leeway with dance, that's just how it is.
Agree with this. My 13yo DD has been acting for a few years and it's her strongest skill. She has limited dance experience and toyed last year with trying for MT courses when old enough (I did a thread about it). I pointed out to her she'd be up against people who had been dancing since a lot younger age and were working at a higher standard. In order to get her there quick enough (if possible) she'd have to give up the hours she spends on acting and singing. We decided the best route for her would be the straight acting courses, even if they are difficult to get into from school. She did see my point and now has a plan B for what to do in the (likely) event of not getting on to her preferred course straight away and will also possibly give her some financial support during the student years.
I think your post is very true lawn. It also highlights what I think is the biggest problem in all of this which is starting to plan early both financially and in terms of skills acquisition. I think many more of us would be less dependent on the good grace of colleges to give us a DaDa or hoping that we get the holy grail BA offer if we had been aware of the funding and financial situation when our DCs were much younger. This is the real message to get across to candidates of the future. Plan, plan, plan! I wish we had.
arianadrama
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Re: Dance - help me convince DS

Post by arianadrama »

Hi Biscuitneeded
I agree that you should let your son come back to more dance at a later date - he has the basics to build upon. My DS had never done any dance before he did NYMT at 14 and it was only after that experience that he started more serious training to include ballet and modern at a well respected Saturday school. (I think our boys may have crossed over the following year with NYMT in Pendragon.) Now 16 people are amazed that he has only been dancing for 2 years and he has just been offered Arts Ed sixth form. I would never have been able to persuade him to do ballet at 12 but things had changed massively for him by 14. The passion has to come from them.
biscuitsneeded
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Re: Dance - help me convince DS

Post by biscuitsneeded »

Just wanted to say thank you to everyone who has contributed to this thread - some great advice here. I will take on board all the advice that it has to come from the child. Ironically, after a bit of a fuss, DS loved his Sunday dance session so hopefully he'll stick with it for a bit - but I can see there's no point forcing him. Arianadrama, I don't think our DSs overlapped because mine didn't do Pendragon; he started last year at NYMT and is doing it again this year, but hope it's all gone well for your DS since.
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