New Spotlight and Equity membership criteria

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theMTAonline
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Re: New Spotlight and Equity membership criteria

Post by theMTAonline »

pg wrote:"No conventional university course has that number of contact hours" - well, precisely. That's why they won't be regarded as proper practical training for the profession.

You don't have to have formal training to get into Equity - you can get your membership from working too( £500 worth of paid professional work, not a lot to ask). . It's a hell of a lot easier to get Equity membership than it used to be .

I'm very glad that there is a bit more clarity for people when assessing courses now that Drama UK has disappeared.

There are FAR too many places offering "drama training" as it is. At least now there's a way to assess whether the training will mean that you'll be automatically eligible for Spotlight and Equity. I've known quite a number of people who've been hugely disillusioned and dismayed to discover that their University courses are not regarded as training by employers in the profession.
Bravo...you're so right. This is a real opportunity to sort out the state of training in the UK.
paulears
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Re: New Spotlight and Equity membership criteria

Post by paulears »

Looks like we're all agreeing on this one. Clearly there are far too many places providing training that may fit the educational rules but is frankly below par, industry requirements wise.

I'm not sold on Equity really - I'm not actually sure what actual use they are. Even the Musicians Union, probably the most powerful out of the ones looking after our area, are beginning to lose their grip. I was an Equity member for years, but joined BECTU when I started being more off-stage but now I perform more again, I haven't gone back, I've not joined the MU and I have just left BECTU as the only real benefit (like Equity) is insurance - and I'm getting that elsewhere now.

I wouldn't like to go back to the closed shop system we used to have, but more average people do seem to be in the system. The hardest working, and most employable people I see tend to be either from the 'special' places or they've not been anywhere at all. The only real service ordinary unis seem to do for us is provide drama teachers - and as I've often said, GCSE drama is a simply terrible and pointless subject in the average school, exactly the same as GCSE music.

Thinking about this Equity/Spotlight thing - maybe it will do some good. Spotlight could be the key - because clearing out the weak ones from a system based around appearance could be healthy.
pg
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Re: New Spotlight and Equity membership criteria

Post by pg »

I think that without Equity, performers would be much, much worse off.

Equity is only as strong as its members.

Most of us benefit from the work it does, even if we're not members. If it dwindles, there will be no one available to fight our corner in times of need or to push to maintain and improve pay and conditions. It might not have all that much power and influence, but without it we'd be on our own : we would have noone in our corner.

Joining and working to improve it is a better option than ignoring it and hoping for the best, in my opinion.
theMTAonline
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Re: New Spotlight and Equity membership criteria

Post by theMTAonline »

pg wrote:I think that without Equity, performers would be much, much worse off.

Equity is only as strong as its members.

Most of us benefit from the work it does, even if we're not members. If it dwindles, there will be no one available to fight our corner in times of need or to push to maintain and improve pay and conditions. It might not have all that much power and influence, but without it we'd be on our own : we would have noone in our corner.

Joining and working to improve it is a better option than ignoring it and hoping for the best, in my opinion.
100% agree with you. https://youtu.be/j4c13JsGY_k and https://youtu.be/J-y7at7PBKc will hopefully help you to understand exactly what all of this means.

During my online Q&A yesterday, someone came on to say that they had felt that they had to withdraw from the uni course because they just weren't getting the contact hours. They were about to audition elsewhere . . . however they were doing so with £20k of debt already behind them.

I know that some schools are really pushing the 'uni' degree card at you - but PLEASE be careful. YOU are the customer. Find out the EXACT contact hours. Ask for STATS. Don't be fobbed off with 'some people got agents last year'...how many, what calibre of agents. Again YOU have the right to that information, and they can't provide you with them, there's an even bigger problem with the course. What jobs are their graduates going on to do...again ask for FACTS...don't just hear the 'one girl did this' line. How long are they staying in the industry? All of these facts have to be provided to governing bodies so they WILL have them.

In the long run, if your child is serious about this industry, this shift will really help them. In the short run, it could save you a fortune.

Good luck folks
paulears
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Re: New Spotlight and Equity membership criteria

Post by paulears »

Has anyone seen a map of where the centres that meet the new criteria are? Certainly promotes the arts as being centred in some areas. On balance, I think I'm also in the camp that sees the tightening up of entry to the profession a good thing - but what about all the people who are not quite up to the standard? I suppose we'll have to filter out those who want to do the business side and the uni courses will provide them with a degree, then an MBa in arts management, production management and all the jobs that surround performing. Clearly, the best trained actors, singers and dancers are those that really can do it. The unis can provide the educational, theoretical needs and those with the 'doing' ability will be looked after.

I'm trying to see a downside, and I really cannot. Unis do not have remotely the hours available, and contact time for many is tiny.

Equity need to harden up and as said in those videos, start promoting the students from these places as being 'proper' performers.

The only slight concern will be if the places we're talking about lose their access to the qualifications that they use to generate additional income - the BTECs and HNDs some offer as a kind of byproduct may vanish. The only real snag would be for parents who simply cannot afford it. The fees being far more than most students could earn part time, and adding the cost of living in London does make the courses at many places just too expensive. We've chatted about the MTA system before, but even with their fees, and 22 students in each year, that's not a huge amount of working capital. It still worries me a little that the new system if it works may well mean a high proportion of performers, especially the dancers, have a disadvantage when they reach the end of their performing career - the uni people have a fallback - their degree is still a degree. A performer's Diploma doesn't count on an application form.

Young people need formal qualifications for the future - I guess OU could be the answer?
theMTAonline
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Re: New Spotlight and Equity membership criteria

Post by theMTAonline »

I'd refer you to this https://youtu.be/qgX_C3vOlVA
If the powers that be actually gave the colleges providing the best service subsidies then maybe we could remove the elitist element that currently exists. There's a small pot of money being distributed too widely to places that aren't delivering the goods.
''Tis an old argument I know but if the training truly gets you industry ready you don't need to worry about the fallback. It's a red herring (IMHO). 82% of my graduates are still working in the arts. Of the others it's their transferable skills that are providing them with an income not a qualification.
Finally RE: The MTA model - given that it clearly works shouldn't the question really be 'what are the other colleges doing with all of their money'? With our Open Book Accounting policy parents and students can see where every penny goes.
All the above said tho this new criteria feels like a hugely positive move. We just need to get #time4change added to the criteria now 8)
paulears
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Re: New Spotlight and Equity membership criteria

Post by paulears »

The more I delve in to this, the more I'm sure you are right. A few months ago I wasn't sure, but I think you were spot on with your aims. Only today I was talking with another of my ex lecturer colleagues - he's on the music side - about your place and the new rules and he was thinking the same - somebody is doing it right, and it's not the universities and colleges. He mentioned one of his old music people who was on a music performance degree with 9 hours a week contact time - the rest being independent or 'guided' study. You really aren't going to be much of a musician with that amount of input.
theMTAonline
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Re: New Spotlight and Equity membership criteria

Post by theMTAonline »

paulears wrote:The more I delve in to this, the more I'm sure you are right. A few months ago I wasn't sure, but I think you were spot on with your aims. Only today I was talking with another of my ex lecturer colleagues - he's on the music side - about your place and the new rules and he was thinking the same - somebody is doing it right, and it's not the universities and colleges. He mentioned one of his old music people who was on a music performance degree with 9 hours a week contact time - the rest being independent or 'guided' study. You really aren't going to be much of a musician with that amount of input.
That genuinely upsets me to think that someone is paying all that money for just 9hrs tuition - aside from the fact that it's completely unrealistic to call that a music course - there's just too few hours to do the subject matter justice (clearly speaking as a biased musician you understand) :D
paulears
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Re: New Spotlight and Equity membership criteria

Post by paulears »

Totally agree. Checked with my old colleague at the college I used to teach at - they have 16 hours for a Level 3 BTEC, but 3 of those are 'directed study' - which should be done in college, in the library, without a teacher, but the kids simply go home - so their class time is quite limited. I didn't listen very well, but I think this is compressed into 3 days, or could be 4?

Students are now referred to as "units of funding" by the bean counters. Not good is it?
theMTAonline
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Re: New Spotlight and Equity membership criteria

Post by theMTAonline »

paulears wrote:Totally agree. Checked with my old colleague at the college I used to teach at - they have 16 hours for a Level 3 BTEC, but 3 of those are 'directed study' - which should be done in college, in the library, without a teacher, but the kids simply go home - so their class time is quite limited. I didn't listen very well, but I think this is compressed into 3 days, or could be 4?

Students are now referred to as "units of funding" by the bean counters. Not good is it?
No not good at all...and it was always the way that colleges were going.
I used to teach in FE many years ago, and it was all about reducing the hours but producing 'the goods' back then. Similarly having taught in universities, it was all about squeezing the teaching down into tiny modules and squeezing the specialism out of the discipline. Sadly when some of the drama colleges decided to liaise with universities this was inevitable. They work to a 'bottom line'...not to an accepted standard of education. So students are probably working hard than ever before (as they're having to do most of the work themselves), but the end result in a degree that's not actually that helpful in 'real terms'.

Here's hoping that a new era will step up and re-introduce truly vocational training as a viable and affordable training option for all that have the basic skills set (aka talent) to make it.
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