Auditioning for 2021 entry

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islandofsodor
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Re: Auditioning for 2021 entry

Post by islandofsodor »

anastasia79 wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 8:11 am
dancelifemum wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 7:46 am
anastasia79 wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 5:07 pm

Mainly that they were in the process of sorting out the ‘talent register’ for the DADAs and also a FB group I think would be set up soon for the new starters to talk about accommodation etc. All in all, it congratulated them again on their offer and explained the upcoming steps and hoped that DC would choose to be a ‘Lainey’.
'talent register' so you can see how good they think you are!!! :(
Like you, I’m not keen at all on this ‘talent register’ 🙄. I don’t even want to think of the hierarchy that will create and the impact it could have on their mental health.

To be fair this is a DaDa requirement although different colleges will call the list different things. Colleges are obliged to create a list of all candidates in order of perceived talent. Dada awards will will then be offered to candidates on that list starting from the top and working down until the money pot has run out. Some colleges have a scoring system they use to do this.
lawn
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Re: Auditioning for 2021 entry

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My daughter has a dilemma. She is more of an actor, applied for mostly straight acting courses. Was always aware it was a long shot as they often prefer the older applicant with more 'life experience'. She applied to Central. There you apply and they consider you for their 3 BA acting courses, didn't get a recall. Some time later they came back to her with 2 other courses they ran and would she like to be considered for either. She said yes to one of them (just to know more) had an interview and they've offered her a place (conditional on her UCAS points). The course is called performance arts and is about creating your own work.

Prior to this though she got an offer for foundation for acting from PPA (I know this isn't one discussed on here much) which we told her we could fund, thinking another year to try again and her be a bit older would be beneficial.

So here's the dilemma, accept Central because of the drama school it is and it's incredible she got in auditioning at only 17 even though it's not the course she initially wanted.

or take the PPA offer and try again a year later when hopefully maturity and extra training will help secure more offers, accepting nothing is guaranteed?

Her training at college has been heavily hit by the pandemic and staff absences. She got into NYT last year at first attempt, but that was a week online rather than the usual fortnight course. They're looking to do an additional in person week later this year to make up. So her applications have been very much her own work without much or any input from tutors.
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anastasia79
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Re: Auditioning for 2021 entry

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islandofsodor wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 9:22 am
anastasia79 wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 8:11 am
dancelifemum wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 7:46 am

'talent register' so you can see how good they think you are!!! :(
Like you, I’m not keen at all on this ‘talent register’ 🙄. I don’t even want to think of the hierarchy that will create and the impact it could have on their mental health.

To be fair this is a DaDa requirement although different colleges will call the list different things. Colleges are obliged to create a list of all candidates in order of perceived talent. Dada awards will will then be offered to candidates on that list starting from the top and working down until the money pot has run out. Some colleges have a scoring system they use to do this.
I appreciate and understand that they need to determine which students will be the most likely to benefit from training. It’s the nature of the business I know, that doesn’t make it feel any better.

My concern is not that there is a list at each school, it’s the connotation that comes with it, the ‘I’m better than you’ because I ranked higher on the list or ‘I’m not good enough’ because of a lower ranking. Being in the arts you need to be thick skinned, it’s just not something I like as a parent.
lawn
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Re: Auditioning for 2021 entry

Post by lawn »

anastasia79 wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 9:42 am
islandofsodor wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 9:22 am
anastasia79 wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 8:11 am

Like you, I’m not keen at all on this ‘talent register’ 🙄. I don’t even want to think of the hierarchy that will create and the impact it could have on their mental health.

To be fair this is a DaDa requirement although different colleges will call the list different things. Colleges are obliged to create a list of all candidates in order of perceived talent. Dada awards will will then be offered to candidates on that list starting from the top and working down until the money pot has run out. Some colleges have a scoring system they use to do this.
I appreciate and understand that they need to determine which students will be the most likely to benefit from training. It’s the nature of the business I know, that doesn’t make it feel any better.

My concern is not that there is a list at each school, it’s the connotation that comes with it, the ‘I’m better than you’ because I ranked higher on the list or ‘I’m not good enough’ because of a lower ranking. Being in the arts you need to be thick skinned, it’s just not something I like as a parent.
Do the kids know though where they are ranked? I suppose they might guess if they get a later Dada offer than others they know at the same place. Plus if you're over £90K household income you're ineligible for Dada funding, so some huge talent could not receive one due to parents income. I think it might have been you that said you don't get this with degree, but when I mentioned this to daughter she said you could if they gave you an unconditional though that could be purely because you're older and have already got your grades and UCAS pints or a lower offer (if they're allowed to do that)
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dancelifemum
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Re: Auditioning for 2021 entry

Post by dancelifemum »

lawn wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 9:19 am
anastasia79 wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 8:11 am
dancelifemum wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 7:46 am

'talent register' so you can see how good they think you are!!! :(
Like you, I’m not keen at all on this ‘talent register’ 🙄. I don’t even want to think of the hierarchy that will create and the impact it could have on their mental health.
What do they mean by 'talent register' ? My understanding of Dadas (I might be totally wrong) is they do rank them in order of talent then go to the top of their list offer a Dada (if eligible) and see how much money they need based on their household income, then go to the 2nd on their list with the same and so on until their 'pot' of Dada money ran out. I also believe this 'pot' has to support their 2nd and 3rd year students who were also on Dadas. Is the talent register something different to that? I'm guessing by 'in the process' that they're already working through it because we know someone who was offered a Dada there earlier this week.
yes some we know were offered with their initial letters so they are clearly at the top of the list.....the rest will be ranked in talent order and then they will go down the dada list see how much each needs and offer accordingly until money has run out...so you need to be closer to the top or hope less require full amounts for it top stretch further. It mentions the 'talent register' in the recent letter.
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dancelifemum
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Re: Auditioning for 2021 entry

Post by dancelifemum »

lawn wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 10:11 am
anastasia79 wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 9:42 am
islandofsodor wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 9:22 am


To be fair this is a DaDa requirement although different colleges will call the list different things. Colleges are obliged to create a list of all candidates in order of perceived talent. Dada awards will will then be offered to candidates on that list starting from the top and working down until the money pot has run out. Some colleges have a scoring system they use to do this.
I appreciate and understand that they need to determine which students will be the most likely to benefit from training. It’s the nature of the business I know, that doesn’t make it feel any better.

My concern is not that there is a list at each school, it’s the connotation that comes with it, the ‘I’m better than you’ because I ranked higher on the list or ‘I’m not good enough’ because of a lower ranking. Being in the arts you need to be thick skinned, it’s just not something I like as a parent.
Do the kids know though where they are ranked? I suppose they might guess if they get a later Dada offer than others they know at the same place. Plus if you're over £90K household income you're ineligible for Dada funding, so some huge talent could not receive one due to parents income. I think it might have been you that said you don't get this with degree, but when I mentioned this to daughter she said you could if they gave you an unconditional though that could be purely because you're older and have already got your grades and UCAS pints or a lower offer (if they're allowed to do that)
I think slightly different for a degree as regardless of talent you will still generally need to meet the UCAS criteria (although some can show a little leniency if they wish)....I too don't like the feeling of starting and already feeling you are considered 'inferior' because of this list as you say it is no longer just talent based but some may just have parents earning too much and therefore cannot be eligible anyway.
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Re: Auditioning for 2021 entry

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If it helps, I'm not sure that the students themselves ever really know where they 'rank' on the list. The colleges will offer a batch of DADA's initially - they know how big their pot of money is and how many students they can cover fully for DADA requirements and then more will be offered as forms are returned and they see how much will actually be allocated to those students. But don't forget that not all students will be eligible for DADA - some will be self funded. My DD certainly did not find it was ever an issue or ever really discussed as to who had a DADA and who hadn't and they all soon discovered that absolutely everyone had strengths and weaknesses
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dancelifemum
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Re: Auditioning for 2021 entry

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2dancersmum wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 10:19 am If it helps, I'm not sure that the students themselves ever really know where they 'rank' on the list. The colleges will offer a batch of DADA's initially - they know how big their pot of money is and how many students they can cover fully for DADA requirements and then more will be offered as forms are returned and they see how much will actually be allocated to those students. But don't forget that not all students will be eligible for DADA - some will be self funded. My DD certainly did not find it was ever an issue or ever really discussed as to who had a DADA and who hadn't and they all soon discovered that absolutely everyone had strengths and weaknesses
sadly at our dance school they put too much emphasis on the 'dada' award....when in reality some have to self fund as they are ineligible, so when 3 girls previously went to Laine a big hoo ha was made about the girl with the dada offer even though the other two couldn't actually apply as their parents were just above the threshold. It has just stuck with us as they left for college feeling their offers weren't as impressive as the other one. Sadly!
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anastasia79
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Re: Auditioning for 2021 entry

Post by anastasia79 »

2dancersmum wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 10:19 am If it helps, I'm not sure that the students themselves ever really know where they 'rank' on the list. The colleges will offer a batch of DADA's initially - they know how big their pot of money is and how many students they can cover fully for DADA requirements and then more will be offered as forms are returned and they see how much will actually be allocated to those students. But don't forget that not all students will be eligible for DADA - some will be self funded. My DD certainly did not find it was ever an issue or ever really discussed as to who had a DADA and who hadn't and they all soon discovered that absolutely everyone had strengths and weaknesses
Thank you, that helps a little to hear of those who’ve been through it and that the ranking for a DADA hasn’t affected them.
islandofsodor
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Re: Auditioning for 2021 entry

Post by islandofsodor »

Who has and hasn't got a DaDa has never been an issue for my daughter's cohort either. Dd has one, there are international students or those with too high a parental income who don't. As the course goes on and people develop at different rates things change and students know that just because they have a Dada they are not necessarily the best at that moment in time.
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Re: Auditioning for 2021 entry

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"sadly at our dance school they put too much emphasis on the 'dada' award....when in reality some have to self fund as they are ineligible, so when 3 girls previously went to Laine a big hoo ha was made about the girl with the dada offer even though the other two couldn't actually apply as their parents were just above the threshold. It has just stuck with us as they left for college feeling their offers weren't as impressive as the other one. Sadly!"


That I can identify with - my DD went off at 16 to do a level 6 diploma at vocational school. Some of her friends got into BOA in Birmingham which is actually the level 3 btec qualification - both at DD's academic school and her dance school the achievements of those who got into BOA were celebrated and my DD left without a mention - although she was subsequently sent flowers and a card from her dance teachers wishing her good luck the week before she started.

I just wanted to offer reassurance that any issue is with people they are leaving behind and not with the students on their course where who got a DADA and when is of no importance.
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dancelifemum
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Re: Auditioning for 2021 entry

Post by dancelifemum »

2dancersmum wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 1:52 pm "sadly at our dance school they put too much emphasis on the 'dada' award....when in reality some have to self fund as they are ineligible, so when 3 girls previously went to Laine a big hoo ha was made about the girl with the dada offer even though the other two couldn't actually apply as their parents were just above the threshold. It has just stuck with us as they left for college feeling their offers weren't as impressive as the other one. Sadly!"


That I can identify with - my DD went off at 16 to do a level 6 diploma at vocational school. Some of her friends got into BOA in Birmingham which is actually the level 3 btec qualification - both at DD's academic school and her dance school the achievements of those who got into BOA were celebrated and my DD left without a mention - although she was subsequently sent flowers and a card from her dance teachers wishing her good luck the week before she started.

I just wanted to offer reassurance that any issue is with people they are leaving behind and not with the students on their course where who got a DADA and when is of no importance.
Yes Thank you! it is just hang ups caused by dance schools and they all deserve a fresh start with a clean slate at college with no pre-conceptions.
lawn
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Re: Auditioning for 2021 entry

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dancelifemum wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 10:25 am
2dancersmum wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 10:19 am If it helps, I'm not sure that the students themselves ever really know where they 'rank' on the list. The colleges will offer a batch of DADA's initially - they know how big their pot of money is and how many students they can cover fully for DADA requirements and then more will be offered as forms are returned and they see how much will actually be allocated to those students. But don't forget that not all students will be eligible for DADA - some will be self funded. My DD certainly did not find it was ever an issue or ever really discussed as to who had a DADA and who hadn't and they all soon discovered that absolutely everyone had strengths and weaknesses
sadly at our dance school they put too much emphasis on the 'dada' award....when in reality some have to self fund as they are ineligible, so when 3 girls previously went to Laine a big hoo ha was made about the girl with the dada offer even though the other two couldn't actually apply as their parents were just above the threshold. It has just stuck with us as they left for college feeling their offers weren't as impressive as the other one. Sadly!
Sounds to me like the dance school wished to boast, probably to say to other prospective students 'come to us, we've got our kids into ......with Dadas' without fully exlaining or even understanding what this means.

Even if you are on the talent register, if the pot of money has run out before they get to your name because the people before you need more financial support you'll not get a Dada. Another drama school the person the same number as you on their list could get one purely because of the household income of the students above you.

I do find it very frustrating when funding isn't explained adequately or at all. Last year daughter's course tutor mentioned diplomas to them but purely focussed on the academic content of them versus a degree and didn't explain any financial implications.

Dadas don't work for us despite having an income below £90K because husband has a company car and doesn't pay for fuel. All this affects his personal tax allowance (the amount before you start paying income tax) so he has a lower net income but then we have to add on these 'perks' as income. It adds another £10K+ to his salary as benefits in kind and the amount we report his income to be. His wages pays the mortgage and bills. Then when I work mine pays the 'extras' such as daughter's rent and living costs but but it's not enough to fully fund the diploma, I don't work in a field/area where there's part time work, so it;s full time or nothing, so add hubby's situation plus my full time wages and a request for me to work overtime or hubby getting an unexpected bonus and it'd throw us just over to the amount where we'd have to pay full fees. For this reason we've had to tell daughter places only offering diplomas are out, even for just acting courses. Oxford school of acting is one that comes to mind that we've said she can't apply to.
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Re: Auditioning for 2021 entry

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lawn wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 9:34 am My daughter has a dilemma. She is more of an actor, applied for mostly straight acting courses. Was always aware it was a long shot as they often prefer the older applicant with more 'life experience'. She applied to Central. There you apply and they consider you for their 3 BA acting courses, didn't get a recall. Some time later they came back to her with 2 other courses they ran and would she like to be considered for either. She said yes to one of them (just to know more) had an interview and they've offered her a place (conditional on her UCAS points). The course is called performance arts and is about creating your own work.

Prior to this though she got an offer for foundation for acting from PPA (I know this isn't one discussed on here much) which we told her we could fund, thinking another year to try again and her be a bit older would be beneficial.

So here's the dilemma, accept Central because of the drama school it is and it's incredible she got in auditioning at only 17 even though it's not the course she initially wanted.

or take the PPA offer and try again a year later when hopefully maturity and extra training will help secure more offers, accepting nothing is guaranteed?

Her training at college has been heavily hit by the pandemic and staff absences. She got into NYT last year at first attempt, but that was a week online rather than the usual fortnight course. They're looking to do an additional in person week later this year to make up. So her applications have been very much her own work without much or any input from tutors.
Firstly, congratulations on 2 fabulous offers. If you accepted the foundation course, could it potentially be bumped up to a diploma or degree course, if other people don't take up their offers? Central is a fantastic offer though and could she possibly swap courses if a spot became available? It is maybe worth asking? Good luck on whatever you decide to do xxx Keep us posted x
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lawn
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Re: Auditioning for 2021 entry

Post by lawn »

jasmine2 wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 6:22 pm
lawn wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 9:34 am My daughter has a dilemma. She is more of an actor, applied for mostly straight acting courses. Was always aware it was a long shot as they often prefer the older applicant with more 'life experience'. She applied to Central. There you apply and they consider you for their 3 BA acting courses, didn't get a recall. Some time later they came back to her with 2 other courses they ran and would she like to be considered for either. She said yes to one of them (just to know more) had an interview and they've offered her a place (conditional on her UCAS points). The course is called performance arts and is about creating your own work.

Prior to this though she got an offer for foundation for acting from PPA (I know this isn't one discussed on here much) which we told her we could fund, thinking another year to try again and her be a bit older would be beneficial.

So here's the dilemma, accept Central because of the drama school it is and it's incredible she got in auditioning at only 17 even though it's not the course she initially wanted.

or take the PPA offer and try again a year later when hopefully maturity and extra training will help secure more offers, accepting nothing is guaranteed?

Her training at college has been heavily hit by the pandemic and staff absences. She got into NYT last year at first attempt, but that was a week online rather than the usual fortnight course. They're looking to do an additional in person week later this year to make up. So her applications have been very much her own work without much or any input from tutors.
Firstly, congratulations on 2 fabulous offers. If you accepted the foundation course, could it potentially be bumped up to a diploma or degree course, if other people don't take up their offers? Central is a fantastic offer though and could she possibly swap courses if a spot became available? It is maybe worth asking? Good luck on whatever you decide to do xxx Keep us posted x
Thank you, she's done incredibly well considering her age and what she's been up against this past 12 months with her course heavily affected by the pandemic and not the training she should have had. She's also on the reserve list for Read college and Rose Bruford foundations. Not thought of that re foundation at PPA but diplomas don't work for us even if it was a place that offered Dadas (it isn't) it's degree or nothing she can take. Paying for a foundation also means that she also can't consider any degree that requires top up fees next year. I'm not sure if she'd want to take degree at PPA, when she's going into it 'blind' so to speak. Not sure about changing courses at Central, am tempted to say No as their acting courses are so sought after. She's messaged current students on the course at Central but it's very 50/50 whether they enthuse about it or not.

So difficult when you haven't actually been in person, just self tape and zoom interview, so you don't get a 'vibe' of a place.
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