Mum without a clue

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Katymac
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Mum without a clue

Post by Katymac »

Hi everyone,

There is a hint in the title; can't sing can't dance can't act. Don't know anything about anything 'performing' at all.

I have been given a child who 'wants to do performing arts' apart from a yen for her to be a teacher or accountant, I've decided to go along with this idea for a bit (probably 20 yrs or so) just to see if she is any good.

She dances (the wrong sort) & sings (had a few lessons), is a bit wary of 'acting' but is prepared to give it a go.

She is 13 & wants to 'do' performing at 'university' to which I am a bit 'Duh?''

I 'think she is good; but tbh what would I know. People tell me she is good but at dance class recently I was slammed for letting her do too much dance & 5 minutes later a different parent was telling me I was neglecting her talent.

So what should I know (assume total ignorance) about:
a) Further Education
b) Getting time off school to compete
c) Should she be looking for work now
d) Anything else useful?

To put it into context she saw a summer school (West end?) & she is selling all her belongings to save up money to go in 2012; so I have to consider her serious.

Thanks
Hecouldshine
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Re: Mum without a clue

Post by Hecouldshine »

Hi Katymac and welcome to NAPM. Think we have chatted on mumsnet? :D

I think you are going the right way about supporting her. She needs to get training - dance and some singing (which doesn't need to be as individual lessons at this stage), and then maybe drama/performing experience through amateur dramatics would be cheaper than a local theatre school, if money is tight. If she is interested in musical theatre then it is the dance that she will have to spend time catching up on. Ballet would be good.

Suspect she will struggle to get professional work at this age as the musical theatre roles are usually for girls under 5ft, but if you want to try the TV/film route you could try looking out for parts in student films locally - and let her build up her experience and then try auditioning for agencies to move onto professional work. You will pick up lots of tips on here but work for teenage girls is really hard to come by/very competitive, I gather, so suspect she needs to concentrate more on getting training and experience to see if she can, and wants, to go onto Further Education/Training in the performing arts.

Hopefully someone else can advise better than I can - but if you look back at old posts from pg and Welsh Mum you will find lots of fantastic advice that will be relevant :D
He could go and he could shine, not just stay here counting time,
Son, we've got the chance to let him live

from Billy Elliot the Musical
Irishdancer
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Re: Mum without a clue

Post by Irishdancer »

Good luck to your dd burt like Hecouldshine has saikd 13 is a hard age not much about for girls unless they are very small for there age most directors use small older girls for teenage parts so short films and local productions are good to get experance. If she dose not do drama exams then let her join a drama class that dose Lamda examas as the higher exams will give her extra marks for going to Unie.
traceythedreamer
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Re: Mum without a clue

Post by traceythedreamer »

Hello Katymac,

My mum found herself in the same position with me when I was about 13. I eventually went on to train at Italia Conti, but it was harder to get there because I hadn't been doing the "right things".

I agree that ballet is very important. ISTD or RAD if possible. My mum sent me to tap and modern at a BATD school for years. I got top marks in all of my exams and yet when I started college I soon realised that I had virtually no technique and had to work very hard to catch up. It turns out BATDs marking system looks at the standard of the school and asses the student accordingly. I hope this has now changed! I would also suggest a non syllabus dance class, as many kids are taught technique, but not how to let go and just dance. It will also help her pick up routines more quickly at auditions.

Youth theatres and local drama groups are great for confidence and experience. LAMDA exams are useful in terms of UCAS points, should she need any extra to top up her school marks. Just try to get as much experience as possible.

I was lucky enough to have individual singing lessons, but not until I was 15. Before this I was involved in lots of amdram and local choirs. I also had some small group lessons, which I loved as I learnt a lot from listening to other people. These weren't as expensive as individual lessons. Singing exams also earn UCAS points from grade 6.

My mum also insisted that I stay on at school until I finished my highers. I had a huge fight with her at the time, but I am glad now. At least you shouldn't have to have this argument with your daughter if she wants to go to uni.

Best of luck to you and your daughter
Tracey x
pg
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Re: Mum without a clue

Post by pg »

Hi Katymac and welcome to NAPM!

I gather you've found us via Mumsnet. It's a different atmosphere here that's for sure (lots of young people use this forum, so I try to watch my language for a start! :lol: ), but I hope you'll find lots of useful information for you and your daughter. You'll certainly find plenty of empathy from parents who have children who love to perform. It's almost always the children doing the pushing and the parents being a bit bewildered!

If you think your daughter is likely to want to try to earn her living as a performer #-o then I recommend reading (for both of you) one or more of the following:

So You Want to Tread the Boards? - Jennifer Reischel
Make Acting Work - Chrys Salt
An Actor's Guide to Getting Work - Simon Dunmore

The first one is particularly useful if she is interested in Musical Theatre.

If she does want to try to earn her living as a performer, it is worth considering training on an accredited course (which could be a degree course, culminating in a BA). See http://www.ncdt.co.uk for details.

If there is something else she would consider doing to earn a living, then I would recommend not doing performing arts at Uni, but choose something that will be of more direct use for her career choice. There are always loads of opportunities to pursue the performing arts as a hobby at Uni (and once she is working) For many people the opportunities to perform (and have more interesting roles) will be far greater as an amateur than as a professional. If she's still determined when she gets to sixth form, then Drama School is likely to give her a better start than Uni.

My children are grown up now. I'm an actor and director (so have plenty of time to spend on internet forums/fora ;) ). My son is a professional actor and my daughter was studying opera but has now changed track. Neither of them did any professional work to speak of when they were younger, but they both performed whenever they could. We lived in a relatively small town where there were a surprising number of amateur opportunities and they both belonged to drama societies/groups and dd did lots of singing and some dance. Also (I think significantly) ds went to the theatre as an audience member a lot - amateur/professional/fringe/other schools - he went to see everything he could afford because he wanted to. He was also very knowledgeable about TV and Film. I am certain they both did far more performing as amateurs than they would ever have had the chance to do professionally. It's not necessary at all (though it might be fun/interesting) to work professionally as a child in order to have a chance of a career as an adult.

It's a ridiculous way to try to earn a living though...
Katymac
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Re: Mum without a clue

Post by Katymac »

Goodness, lots of information (still working on reading it all); Thank you all

What She does now is:
In the Dance company @ 'The Garage' in Norwich
Doing her Silver Arts Award (just completed her bronze in half the time of her group)
1hr Ballroom/Latin dance class
About 10 private ballroom lessons a year in London plus a similar number in Norwich

She competes (ISTD) & is doing OK

She does African Drumming & Dancing; & leads workshops in the dancing

Plus any & every dance workshop she can manage (Salsa, Brazilian Samba, Lindy, Flamenco, Capoeira)
A summer school drama workshop & 3 summer school musical theatre workshops

She has done previously 6 yrs of Ballet (ISTD I think), 4 terms of Tap, 2 yrs modern & a year of 121 singing, plus choral group, choir & school 121 lessons

She plays piano (a bit by ear)

I'm trying to work out what's best to do next

Her plan is to qualify as a ballroom/latin teacher & use the money from Private lessons to fund university, possibly teaching or possibly PA <sigh>
pg
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Re: Mum without a clue

Post by pg »

Crumbs, she fits a lot in!

Hopefully someone with more knowledge of the dance world will be able to offer you more insight into sensible training/FE routes since this is clearly her "thing". I only really have experience of music and acting.
Katymac
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Re: Mum without a clue

Post by Katymac »

Yes the one thing I don't worry about is what Tracey was saying about "a non syllabus dance class, as many kids are taught technique, but not how to let go and just dance" - she does; she picks up routines on the second repeat & choreographs well enough for ISTD Disco Freestyle medal tests
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Welsh Mum
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Re: Mum without a clue

Post by Welsh Mum »

My DD also was detrmined on performimg, I just could not get her to change her mind no matter how hard I tried! Absolutely no one else in our family (or anyone we know) has doen anything like it, so like you it was an onknown territory :D . However, this site has been great, also the books mentioned - I felt I had to increase my knowledge in order to aupport my DD.

My DD is now at a London drama college doing training for MT. She has never done paid work - not teally a possibility where we live and my job. However, I don't think this has held her back, most on her course are like her, only a couple have profesional expereince - and they have had to "unlearn" some things. However, like your DD mine also did lots of dance, singing and amateur productions. Like pg's DS she has also watched productions whenever possible, and watched probably a wider range of films and tv dramas than the average teenager did!

As she is only 13 I think she should just carry on with her classes, activities etc. However, over the next few years she needs to think what area of performing she would like to aim for - dance, acting, singing or MT. That will dictate the type of course she will apply for. I think thats why my DD has done MT - she genuinley loves all 3 disciplines, so it made sense to do a course encompassing all of them.

However, although my Dd was adamant she was not going to uni, I made sure she got good GCSEs, and other experience of work. I also encouraged her do a degree course rather than diploma, as then whatever happens she will have that qualification.

Good luck and welcome to NAPM!!
The highway's jammed with broken heroes on a last chance power drive.
islandofsodor
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Re: Mum without a clue

Post by islandofsodor »

Hi Katy - nice to see you here.

My dh teaches in ther FE/HE sector. Although he teaches voice he works primarily at dance/Musical theatre schools on courses such as Dance & Musical Theatre or acting.

Triple threat seems to be the big thing at most places and at the main college where he works both those applying for the dance and the acting courses have to sing at their auditions.

If your dd is serious then she should consider starting ballet or jazz again and joining some kind of drama group/class. A big thing that dh's college look for at audition is the ability to act through a song. Its not about having a lovely voice necessarily but being able to create chatracters and also the different voice qualities required in musical theatre. However if someone can sing in tune and act the song then college can teach you the technique with regards to singing.

Most of his students regard themselves as either actor/singers or dancer/singers. It isn't on the website any more, not sure why but as a guide his college used to say you needed to be a minimum of Advanced 1 standard to apply.
Katymac
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Re: Mum without a clue

Post by Katymac »

Hiya <waves>

What's advanced standard 1
islandofsodor
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Re: Mum without a clue

Post by islandofsodor »

Its a dance grade - now forgice me as I'm not a dancer but I think:

You have dance Grades 1 - 8 which are similar to music etc grades. However you also have vocational grades which are meant to be for those students who are serious. At dd's dance school they start vocational grades around Grade 4/ 5 alongside the normal grades.

Vocational grades go :

Intermediate Foundation (optional)
Intermediate
Advanced 1
Advanced 2

Now the college doesn't actually specify you have to have the piece of paper but they would expect that sort of standard at audition
Katymac
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Re: Mum without a clue

Post by Katymac »

Goodness - never heard of those

Thanks

This learning curve is very steep atm
Hecouldshine
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Re: Mum without a clue

Post by Hecouldshine »

Hi Katy. Sounds like your daughter has had loads of training and experience. She sounds amazing -would love to see some of her Latin and African dance - wish we could find those styles around here for my 13 year old ds :roll: Maybe she just needs to review what she needs for entry to colleges/uni later, like the Advanced 1 dance standard for MT courses. Islandofsodor has given the normal ballet exam route for girls going down the professional dance side - with RAD (and ISTD I think)- you get to grade 4 or 5 then go Intermediate then Advanced 1 essentially, so it probably isn't too difficult for her to reach the audition standard in the time she has ahead of her if she restarts ballet.

I really recommend the So You Want To Tread The Boards book that pg mentions. I'm slightly surpised that you are looking at uni drama course with her background. I would have thought that Wesh Mum's suggestion of a drama college with MT training, like Mountview and getting a degree there, or a slightly more dance based college like Laines or Urdang would give her more performing during her training, compared with a uni drama course. We have had lots of debates on here over the years about drama college versus uni drama courses :-k Check out page 9 of this book about it! (hope there a hasn't been a new edition :roll: , mine is 2007)

Good luck!
He could go and he could shine, not just stay here counting time,
Son, we've got the chance to let him live

from Billy Elliot the Musical
Katymac
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Re: Mum without a clue

Post by Katymac »

Look at Cuban salsa/Brazilian samba workshops; we have loads here & a big charity day at Whitsun (you just missed it or I would invite you; Norfolk is great for a long weekend)

The university isn't exactly a decision, more a "I'm not sure doing performing Arts at Great Yarmouth college instead of A levels (at 16) is a good idea" (sorry to those who have made that choice); I'm doing OU so she sees studying as a life long process (fortunately)

Somewhere like 'Drumcamp' (http://www.musicworldwide.org/ - I am guessing links aren't like MN) might be a good (if expensive) way to gain some experience in that way, my daughter is looking forward to extending her bangra (sp)

The discussion about ballet will be hard; but I'll give it a go
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