permission refused. is head mistress being unreasonable?

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jules1066
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Re: permission refused. is head mistress being unreasonable?

Post by jules1066 » Wed Apr 23, 2014 3:51 pm

I'll download Cheshire leaflet - thanks. Have spent all day writing letter to governors and after reading all the info it's very clear to me now that the Head's excuse that the government has tightened it's policy on absence is a complete redherring. And that the head is interpreting the policy wrongly in order to play the numbers game. The guidelines issued by the government specifically state the absence policy for child performances remains unchanged and if dates are confirmed the head can simply grant permission. And the onous is on the head to demonstrate there will be a negative effect on child's education. I am perfectly within my right to go to LEA directly to ask for the license! But first I need school governors to look into it. I want the decision overturned ideally. As it's wrong wrong wrong for any head to use this excuse unless the school really has an absence problem (which ours doesn't). If all the Heads across our wonderful nation used this excuse there would be no children at all available to perform on School days which completely contradicts the legislation which sets out to achieve the opposite. Pah!

supamum
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Re: permission refused. is head mistress being unreasonable?

Post by supamum » Mon Apr 28, 2014 4:31 pm

I have just noticed this post. Sorry to hear what you are having to go through. My daughter attends a school with a performing arts status and they still refused to give her permission to appear in a show at the National Theatre, lucky for us the lea did overturn the decision and issued the licence for her but the school still put it down as unauthorised. My daughter has just recently been represented by an agency which could possibly mean more work and having the battle each time with licences. I have made the decision to move her to another school who I know will support her, its a decision I have found very difficult because its an excellent school that she is in, but this is what she wants to do and I have to support her, she loved the school when we went to visit it and I spoke to the head teacher and she will support her if she does get any work

jules1066
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Re: permission refused. is head mistress being unreasonable?

Post by jules1066 » Mon Apr 28, 2014 5:40 pm

Hi Supamum
I know how you feel. It's hard to change schools, and a job to weigh up all the factors. I got some really nice advice from a friend who was a Governor once at the school so I'm going through all the initial channels to log the complaint and I've also called around other local schools to see what their policy is. It's reassuring to hear they all support absences due to Licenced Child Performances and I fear my daughter's headmistress is applying her own personal view rather than weighing up all the factors rationally. But it means our complaint has some merit to it. The LEA Licence man at our council came back to me to say I would have to take it up with the Head teacher and Governors so it does not appear to be that straight forward...interestingly enough, the LEA in Cheshire said the headteacher has to grant permission UNLESS their is a negative educational impact. Sadly, we're miles from Cheshire. It appears there is one ACT of Parliament, but it is being implemented differently by some headteachers. I'm sure it can't be too many (I HOPE!!) - that would be irrational. Although I decided to send my DD to her sister's school I was curious to know whether the feeder Junior School to my daughter's current infant school would support such absence requests, and they DO! :D

twirlymum
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Re: permission refused. is head mistress being unreasonable?

Post by twirlymum » Fri May 02, 2014 1:37 pm

My DS is 7, and will be filming his sixth commercial this year next week. I'm always nervous about requesting time off, but so far his head teacher has been very supportive. On his school report the time off is marked as 'educated offsite' so doesn't affect overall attendance figures. I hope you get it sorted, I think there is so much discrepancy with the way schools and even different councils deal with licensing.

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Re: permission refused. is head mistress being unreasonable?

Post by George'smum » Sat May 03, 2014 11:07 pm

We had the same problem a while back with head teacher refusing to sign one day off for filming a commercial. She failed to see the difference between taking time out for a holiday and time off for the purpose of working in the entertainment industry. Ironically the forms are next to each other on our council website and the difference is clearly stated. It was partly down to their poor ofsted report and partly that the head teacher is unsupportive, even to the point of refusing to speak to me so I had to go through the deputy head. We offered to hire a private tutor and take home all the work he would have missed but to no avail. Since then ds's agent has only been able to put him forward for work filmed in holiday time and I know he's lost out on jobs he would have got. Apparently each council has slightly differently worded forms with some making it harder to reject as the head teacher has to provide a reason why it would harm the student rather than just not giving her approval.

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Re: permission refused. is head mistress being unreasonable?

Post by Cupcakes » Sat May 03, 2014 11:22 pm

Hi we are having this problem now with the school, they will only authorise 5 dyas in a school year regardless of what it is for. My dd was offered 6 days filming and they will only authorise 3 of them even tho she is top sets and has 96 per cent attendance. They are saying they won't give her any further days absence if she gets anymore work either as she'll have used her 5 days up. What do you do she has waited years to get any work and when she finally does the school won't authorise the absence because their policy has changed and their attendance was only satisfactory even tho they are an outstanding school. Its all so unfair that they can take away kids dreams and hopes just because the other children have so much time off. She starts high school this year and they have said no days are allowed off from school whatsoever, unless a tutor is provided and proof is provided then they may consider it!! ](*,)

begolina
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Re: permission refused. is head mistress being unreasonable?

Post by begolina » Sun May 04, 2014 10:49 pm

I really hope I will not sound repetitive or obsessed because it sounds like I am going on and on.

It is not up to the school to authorise it. It is only LEA's responsability to do it (they can ask to the school a report on the child, NOT the authorisation). Once LEA gives the licence, by law the school has to sign the abcence as authorised (possibly as educated outside school, bear in mind that tutor is mandatory only under certain circumstances not for short periods). The company apply for the licence. If Lea refuse it, has to do it by writing. Parents, in behalf of the child, can appeal the decision to a judge. If someone in the school lies about the child's absence or academic result commits a crime and can be prosecuted. It is all very clearly written in the Regulations. You don't need a sollicitor or to be one to read a piece of legislation, the details of it are in this thread. Then ask LEA to respect the child's rights to work in entertainment, you can do it also before or in the same time submitting the application.

Some LEA don't know it or are happy to delegate the fault/responsability to the school. My Lea told me clearly they didn't want "to go against the school" I did write to them to remind them what the law says and I had the licence straight away. And believe me, the school was particularly tough. They didn't want to hear any reason or even meet me. Last thing they told me about the case was "There is nothing that anybody can do". {evil} {evil} {evil}

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Re: permission refused. is head mistress being unreasonable?

Post by Cupcakes » Mon May 05, 2014 9:03 am

Thanks for replying I spoke to the Agent who said the school have to authorise before they can apply for the licence so they mustnt know about this law she told me to get advice from the council so I spoke to a lady who issues the licences she told me the same they have to have the school authorisation and all schools are clamping down on attendance she said id need to speak to the EWO whose away for 2 weeks to see if theres a tutor there would they allow the code to be changed at school. So who did you write to at the council was it the people who issue the licence or the EWO attached to the school? I have also spoken to a governor who said they weite the policies as a blanket and cant think of everyone at the time individually and they are just normal working people and dont know the laws about performing children and i should write to the chair of governors to ask them to review their policy and put my case to them as if the head goes against their policy and authorises for one child they could have them up on a disciplinary. In the meantime shes misses out on 3 days filming and her agency probably wont put her forward now for anymore because they think they need school permission first too. She only has about six weeks left at primary school by the time they change their policy she'll be finished there! Jules 1066 good luck with your letter to the governors too. Has anyone got the link for the cheahire download booklet mentioned? Thanks.

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Re: permission refused. is head mistress being unreasonable?

Post by begolina » Mon May 05, 2014 12:28 pm

"School clamping down"? :shock:

We are talking about two different things here and maybe this is what create confusion. One thing is to ask permission to take the child out of school for holidays or whatsoever, totally different thing is a child working in entertainment which is regulated by law. See sophiesocks post in page 1 of this thread, which explains very well that piece of legislation (and of course you can google it and read it by yourself).

It would be nice to be in a school that is supportive, if this is not the case you don't have to speak to headmasters, governors, EWO or whoever who is NOT encharge to give the licence. I really don't know how to say it in a different way. I though my letter is very straightforward. The letter has to be addressed to the person in LEA encharge to give the licence. You can cut off from the letter all the part in relation to the association of LEAs for the application of the law (NNCEE, if this might add confusion) and add sopiesocks's post. I can speak only for personal experience, and believe me all the people involved were very tough. It is not a walk in the park and you have to be sure and convinced of what you say. I really think that in this instance we should state our rights and not ask permission to exercise them.

Anyway. Did you read the law? If you haven't done it, please do so. It's in English not in latin. :D

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/196 ... ry-c653983 from 37 to 43

and the Regulations for the application of the law
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1968 ... tents/made

If you need any help with this you can message me.
Last edited by begolina on Mon May 05, 2014 3:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

lostouthere
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Re: permission refused. is head mistress being unreasonable?

Post by lostouthere » Mon May 05, 2014 2:02 pm

Wow. Thank you begolina. Sorry to be slow on the uptake here. But I have just read the Education (Pupil Registration) (England)(Amendment) Regulations 2013 (what else would you do on a bank holiday?). The key change made to Regulation 7 of the Education (Pupil Registration) etc Regulations 2006, clamping down on absences, is clearly 'subject to paragraph (2)' (of Regulation 7). And paragraph (2) of Regulation 7 is the paragraph that makes an exception allowing leave of absence to take part in a performance. So there it is, the regulations of 2013 did not affect performance licensing at all, as begolina says. There is in fact an express exception. Even if I have been slow to get it, this has made my day! Thanks again everyone for the awesome research.

begolina
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Re: permission refused. is head mistress being unreasonable?

Post by begolina » Mon May 05, 2014 3:50 pm

Thanks lostoutthere. I think it is an interesting reading. The Regulations 2013 in relation to Regulations 2006, it's a lovely addition to the debate by sophiesocks (page 1 of the thread)
I was quite impress as well by that point =D> =D> =D>

RoseTowers4
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Re: permission refused. is head mistress being unreasonable?

Post by RoseTowers4 » Wed Dec 09, 2015 5:27 pm

I'm not sure whether to start a new thread on this one as it's slightly different but here goes.

My ds recently started at a new school and before he started I specifically asked the Deputy Head whether time off would be allowed for attending castings and auditions if they clashed with school. I explained that though I would obviously endeavour to ensure full attendance at school, occasionally I might need to taken him out early to get to London in time. I was told that they would be happy for this to happen and would indeed celebrate it if he secured a part.

At the start of term he missed three sessions to attend castings and the school were happy to authorise these. However, more recently he has had over a week off ill, as his attendance has now dropped I have been informed that he will not be authorised to attend any castings/auditions in school time in future. I know the previous thread talks about children who have secured work applying directly to the LEA but I wondered if anyone had any advice regarding time off for attending castings/auditions?

Please any suggestions???? :(
Last edited by RoseTowers4 on Wed Oct 18, 2017 1:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

paulears
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Re: permission refused. is head mistress being unreasonable?

Post by paulears » Wed Dec 09, 2015 5:41 pm

You've fallen into the dreaded stats category of a poor attendee. Authorised and unauthorised absences are collated, and form part of the schools performance data. This simply looks at their percentage attendance without excuses, and the sickness has put your son into this 'danger' area. The fact that cannot be fudged, even though the reason is good, is that he's missed too much school. Until he's out of 'risk' the school would be negligent approving further missed time. In impact, being ill is the same as being off job hunting - classes were missed.

What could you argue? He's missed too much for them to allow it to get worse. Next inspection they'd not be able to explain it away when the poor attendance was studied. They would be asked what have they done to address it, and they would say they have prevented any further lapses. Not good, but accurate.

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missmoneypenny
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Re: permission refused. is head mistress being unreasonable?

Post by missmoneypenny » Wed Dec 09, 2015 7:40 pm

That is all correct but many schools work around it by using different methods, probably a different code? My DS has been off for a third of the week every week since the start of the school year as he is in a play, this is all supported fully and authorised. His attendance is low but it is somehow managed internally so we don't get the warnings etc. This may be different as it has been rehearsals and performances rather than castings, and we do try not to take time off for castings if possible. I would go in and speak to the school about it and see if they can find a way to work with you, but I suspect they would have pulled it out of the bag if they were going to :/

ACookie
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Re: permission refused. is head mistress being unreasonable?

Post by ACookie » Wed Dec 09, 2015 9:02 pm

If the child has a local authority licence issued for a particular performance, show etc. the school can enter a code E which is educational visit or such like. Auditions and castings would usually be entered as unauthorised absence I'm afraid. Schools are not really meant to authorise any absence these days as it can effect their Ofsted grading at a future inspection. Some Headteachers are more willing to enter an odd day of authorised absence than others. They would be held to account if they were questioned as to why a child had so much time off.

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