It is a tough time to be young. I have been watching threads on line discussing a/s and a2 results coming in and many difficult situations about university places.
My dd gets GCSE results next week and the plan is for her to do a levels whilst upping her drama/dance/singing work outside of college with a view to applying for drama schools.
I am sure that she is bright enough to get a good uni place if she applied for an academic course but:
1. Will she be spreading herself too thin trying to prepare for drama school auditions and a levels at the same time?
2. Is there a risk that she fails at both?
3.Can you apply for uni and drama school in the same year so that the academic option is there if she doen't get a drama school place?
Her heart is in musical theatre but I have no idea if she is good enough to stand a chance. Obviously, at the end of the day, this is my dd's decision but it would be good to have some idea of the odds before taking such a huge gamble.
Does anyone know of an experienced drama teacher in the Yorkshire area who might spend some time assessing my dd and give an honest opinion.
Any thoughts or advice would be gratefully received
How do you know if they are "good enough"?
Moderator: busybusybusy
Re: How do you know if they are "good enough"?
I can really empathise with you Amanda. My dd is also awaiting GCSE results next week and is hoping to return to 6th form to do A levels. She has her sights set on a career as a perfomer, either Opera or Musical Theatre and as much as I want to encourage her, I'm aware of how much competition there is. I have been trying to gently steer her in the direction of going to uni, and then applying for Music colleges, if she still wants to afterwards, but I have to be careful as I think she may be inclined to interpret that as me not thinking that she's good enough to succeed. I also understand your concerns about 'spreading herself too thin' as obviously the A levels will be demanding enough as it is, without all the extra curricular stuff, but without that we may not be giving them the best chance of succeeding at auditions for drama or music schools !
I suppose all we can try to do is to find some sort of balance, but there will have to be less time for something, and hopefully in my dd's case that will be less Facebook !
I suppose all we can try to do is to find some sort of balance, but there will have to be less time for something, and hopefully in my dd's case that will be less Facebook !
Re: How do you know if they are "good enough"?
Thanks for your reply Coco. It is so difficult isn't it?
Part of me thinks that at 16/17 everyone should be chasing their dreams. Time enough to be sensible wage slaves later in life. But these are hard times and it will cost a fortune to go to uni. Is it worth £50k of debt if is not what you really want to do?
AARGHHH!
Part of me thinks that at 16/17 everyone should be chasing their dreams. Time enough to be sensible wage slaves later in life. But these are hard times and it will cost a fortune to go to uni. Is it worth £50k of debt if is not what you really want to do?
AARGHHH!
Re: How do you know if they are "good enough"?
To answer your question about applying to uni and drama school at the same time, in theory you can do this. However, you only have 5 places on your UCAS form (meaning you have 5 applications in total). Some very good acting/Mt courses are also through UCAS however e.g. Central, East 15, Rose Bruford, RWCMD, RSCMD. So that would mean you would have fewer places for uni. It would be difficult to know what to do: for both uni and drama courses there is high competition, so really you want to apply for as many as possible to maximise your chances.
You are correct, it is difficult for youngsters to make these decisions. There is also a huge cost consideration now - it used to be that people would go to uni first and then drama/music college, but with huge fee increases this has major financial considerations. Its anticpated that the average debt for a first degree will be in excess of £60,000-£70,000. So two degrees would be a massive debt, even a post grad will add on another £15,000-£20,000. This amount of debt is staggering, particularly as a performing career is precarious at best.
You are correct, it is difficult for youngsters to make these decisions. There is also a huge cost consideration now - it used to be that people would go to uni first and then drama/music college, but with huge fee increases this has major financial considerations. Its anticpated that the average debt for a first degree will be in excess of £60,000-£70,000. So two degrees would be a massive debt, even a post grad will add on another £15,000-£20,000. This amount of debt is staggering, particularly as a performing career is precarious at best.
The highway's jammed with broken heroes on a last chance power drive.
-
*Cazzy-Lou*
- GRAMMY Award
- Posts: 240
- Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2006 7:48 pm
Re: How do you know if they are "good enough"?
Amanda I can't really give you must advice but just thought i'd say
via UCAS you can apply for up to 5 universities - some drama schools (such as Central I believe) also do it this way so you'd have to pick carefully. Other drama schools you apply to completely separate from UCAS. Hope this helps & good luck to your dd in her GCSE results
I see Welsh Mum beat me to it
via UCAS you can apply for up to 5 universities - some drama schools (such as Central I believe) also do it this way so you'd have to pick carefully. Other drama schools you apply to completely separate from UCAS. Hope this helps & good luck to your dd in her GCSE results
I see Welsh Mum beat me to it
Re: How do you know if they are "good enough"?
Which Drama schools can you apply to separately from UCAS? Is it only the VERY expensive ones? We don't have much money so we would need to apply to schools/courses where student loans and tuition fee loans are available. I think that these will probably all be degree courses and therefore will take an UCAS place.
Re: How do you know if they are "good enough"?
I am fairly sure that quite a number of schools still have separate applications. You might need to check each school individually. When my son applied, it was only Central (from his choices) that went through UCAS as far as I remember. RADA, Guildhall, LAMDA, Mountview were all direct applications (they may have changed now). These courses still had "maintained" funding - except Mountview which was DaDA when he applied - so RADA, Guildhall, LAMDA were all the same deal (financiallly) as University places. He went to RADA. My daughter went to RWCMD (Music) which was via UCAS. I went to Oxford School of Drama which was DaDA funded ( and direct application). We don't have much money and they had to have the maximum loans etc. I wasn't able to offer them any financial help unfortunately. 
My son applied and got a place during his A level year. I do think that he probably - who am I kidding? - definitely concentrated more on his drama school entry than his A levels (though his grades were fine). My dd applied for drama schools during her A level year and didn't get a place but then got a place the following year doing Music/Opera Studies. She had very good A level results but has always been more inclined to apply herself academically 
.
I think it might be helpful to get an outside view from someone else ( and some audition tips/practice), but I also think that this outside view could be wrong! Schools look for such different things - my ds was accepted at some (including RADA) and turned down by others. The only thing someone might be able to say would be that she has no hope - which I'm sure isn't true, because unless you were a totally blinkered person and blinded by stardust, you would be able to see if that were the case!
Have you looked at http://www.ncdt.co.uk? This gives a good overview of courses and the current funding situation.
I don't know whereabouts you are in Yorkshire. If you think it would be helpful, and if you feel I have the right experience - and you are close enough - I would be happy to help with some audition tips/practice - I live in the Peak District. PM me if this is any use
My son applied and got a place during his A level year. I do think that he probably - who am I kidding? - definitely concentrated more on his drama school entry than his A levels
(though his grades were fine). My dd applied for drama schools during her A level year and didn't get a place but then got a place the following year doing Music/Opera Studies. She had very good A level results but has always been more inclined to apply herself academically .I think it might be helpful to get an outside view from someone else ( and some audition tips/practice), but I also think that this outside view could be wrong! Schools look for such different things - my ds was accepted at some (including RADA) and turned down by others. The only thing someone might be able to say would be that she has no hope - which I'm sure isn't true, because unless you were a totally blinkered person and blinded by stardust, you would be able to see if that were the case!
Have you looked at http://www.ncdt.co.uk? This gives a good overview of courses and the current funding situation.
I don't know whereabouts you are in Yorkshire. If you think it would be helpful, and if you feel I have the right experience - and you are close enough - I would be happy to help with some audition tips/practice - I live in the Peak District. PM me if this is any use
Re: How do you know if they are "good enough"?
Thanks pg.
Your children have both done so well!
The link is very useful. I have been looking at The conference of Drama Schools site http://www.drama.ac.uk/ which has a slightly different set of info.
I think that I will be fretting for the next 2 years!
Can I put in another plea for a northern drama teacher with experience of preparing people for drama school auditions. I think that my dd could especially benefit from advice regarding classical speeches.
Thanks to all
Your children have both done so well!
The link is very useful. I have been looking at The conference of Drama Schools site http://www.drama.ac.uk/ which has a slightly different set of info.
I think that I will be fretting for the next 2 years!
Can I put in another plea for a northern drama teacher with experience of preparing people for drama school auditions. I think that my dd could especially benefit from advice regarding classical speeches.
Thanks to all
Re: How do you know if they are "good enough"?
PG Just missed the last sentence of your post. I will send PM.
Thanks!
Thanks!
-
Caroline A-C
- BAFTA Award
- Posts: 716
- Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2008 6:46 pm
Re: How do you know if they are "good enough"?
Mountview, GSA, Arts Ed etc are all independent of UCAS and you do need to apply individually. There is an audition fee for each which averages at around £35. You can apply for these as well as UCAS so could in effect decide at the end of the A level course. If you do audition for the independent colleges, then there is a deposit to secure any offers. Hope this helps a bit.
All new to me!
Re: How do you know if they are "good enough"?
One more thing to consider. If you apply through UCAS you are entitled to the same fee loand and maintenance (living costs) loan as any other degree course, and repayment conditions are also the same. Non-UCAS courses usually (but not always) cost more. For most of them a fixed number of DaDa's are offered which pay fees only.
This website is very useful:
http://www.btinternet.com/~simon.dunmore/
with lots of info and advice about applying. There is a good page where he explains the different funding/application arrangements for each course.
Also the book "So You Want To Tread The Boards" by Jennifer Reischel is a mine of information for the clueless (like I was ). I bought it as much for myself as my DD when she was applying, as I felt unable to discuss options etc with her because of lack of knowledge.
This website is very useful:
http://www.btinternet.com/~simon.dunmore/
with lots of info and advice about applying. There is a good page where he explains the different funding/application arrangements for each course.
Also the book "So You Want To Tread The Boards" by Jennifer Reischel is a mine of information for the clueless (like I was
). I bought it as much for myself as my DD when she was applying, as I felt unable to discuss options etc with her because of lack of knowledge.The highway's jammed with broken heroes on a last chance power drive.
-
francescasmum
- OSCAR Award
- Posts: 2078
- Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2010 5:21 pm
- Location: York
- Contact:
Re: How do you know if they are "good enough"?
amanda, I have sent you a pm
Re: How do you know if they are "good enough"?
I think the stats on how many graduates are actually 'living the dream' are probably very depressing reading. I can think of very few performing arts people who are making a decent living without a good dollop of luck. Many of my old students are now the wrong side of 30, with little in the bank and no pension. Being bright and having good exam results seems to have little impact on performing arts income. Not all have the temperament for being a teacher - where at least pay is good and pension ok.
A 50K loan doesn't stand a hope of being paid of for a very long time - I think I've started to believe more and more that performing as a career move is not as wonderful as it was. It's great for grounding in communication skills, so certainly isn't wasted time - but the real job prospects for performing arts people are in very different areas where being able to be 'different' on demand is a really useful skill. Look at the 'The Apprentice' - the ones who do well understand people, can do what really is performing - all those project launches and pitches - and the lack of business skills never seems a problem, as they can be learned. Those that cannot present themselves are doomed.
In my own field, this year we're seeing a drop in audience numbers for shows designed for C1/C2 and below people (socio-economic groups if you want to Google). They have no money, and what they have they won't spend on entertainment. This hits the regions first, but is pretty countrywide. Training people to get work in a contracting market is a bit worrying - especially as many of them really won't ever make it. My panto this year isn't even needing to audition, we have enough people we like and can ask back - so what will all the new graduates be doing?
A 50K loan doesn't stand a hope of being paid of for a very long time - I think I've started to believe more and more that performing as a career move is not as wonderful as it was. It's great for grounding in communication skills, so certainly isn't wasted time - but the real job prospects for performing arts people are in very different areas where being able to be 'different' on demand is a really useful skill. Look at the 'The Apprentice' - the ones who do well understand people, can do what really is performing - all those project launches and pitches - and the lack of business skills never seems a problem, as they can be learned. Those that cannot present themselves are doomed.
In my own field, this year we're seeing a drop in audience numbers for shows designed for C1/C2 and below people (socio-economic groups if you want to Google). They have no money, and what they have they won't spend on entertainment. This hits the regions first, but is pretty countrywide. Training people to get work in a contracting market is a bit worrying - especially as many of them really won't ever make it. My panto this year isn't even needing to audition, we have enough people we like and can ask back - so what will all the new graduates be doing?