A Level/BTEC Diploma

[pg]

So Paulears - to clarify, do you think that my dd would have any chance of getting into a good drama school at 18 after a levels and high quality extra curricular drama, dance, singing since the age of 6? This includes NYMT already and we hope to include other national level groups by the time she applies.

I would agree with Welshmum that's it's certainly possible. It is true though that the competition for girls generally is very tough and for Musical Theatre courses it is even worse! There are no guarantees, but it sounds to me as though she's getting excellent preparation.

[paulears]

It's of course possible - after all, thank goodness we still tend to interview by audition. Talent is still a sought after thing. In my christmas show we had 8 dancers and one key artiste in the 19-24 yr old age group. 7 of the 9 had BTECs before dance/acting college.

I don't think I can say that BTEC is always universally good - I think that Level 2 in schools is really an introductory alternative qualification to GCSE, but Level 3 BTEC people cannot get out of the PASS category unless they actually can do it! Somebody can get an A in A Level Performing Arts or Theatre studies and be a really average performer - because actual acting is more drama - lots of angst, and emotion rather than the nuts and bolts of 'proper acting'. I'm at the moment looking for some technical people for 3 months work. Odd are that they will be ex-BTEC people. Not all, but certainly, most.

Hours wise - there are rules (BUT) BTEC is expensive, so sometimes colleges and schools take a few liberties.

What is cast in stone is that a Level 3 BTEC will have 18 units in it. Some are compulsory - then specialist units can be added. Bigger colleges actually have more on offer than people can take, so the kids can select the best ones for them. If timetable allows, there is no reason people cannot add extras to the 18 - and the best graded 18 count. Smaller colleges actually pick the 18 units and don't have extras on offer. The maths says that this probably means 8 or 9 units each year. There is a bit of 'fudge' room when trying to link units to hours to credits - but 18 units broadly means 6o guided learning hours per unit = so if you work on two 30 week years - that's 18 hours a week. The fudge room comes from then applying the rules below. If you are crafty, you can see that shows, rehearsals and other pre-production tasks would fit into the 'guided learning hours' - even though they are not class time - so many colleges can reduce class hours to 16 ish, quite legitimately as it's averaged out over the total time period. However, if any of your kids are doing BTEC in school where there are no extra sessions, it's worth double checking their hours fit the rules - you could find hours 'missing'?

Guided learning hours are defined as all the times when a tutor, trainer or facilitator is present to give specific guidance towards the learning aim being studied on a programme. This definition includes lectures, tutorials and supervised study in, for example, open learning centres and learning workshops. It also includes time spent by staff assessing learners’ achievements. It does not include time spent by staff in day to day marking of assignments where the learner is not present.

[old hand]

amanda wrote:
So Paulears - to clarify, do you think that my dd would have any chance of getting into a good drama school at 18 after a levels and high quality extra curricular drama, dance, singing since the age of 6? This includes NYMT already and we hope to include other national level groups by the time she applies.


Amanda my dd is in her 2nd year at Central School of Speech and Drama (M/T Pathway) having followed exactly the same path as you have suggested above. I think it all depends on what is suitable to each individual.

[paulears]

yep - I agree, the thing that rings warning bells are the kids who have A levels and not a jot of performing experience. Even the audition will be a huge problem because they have nothing to base their statement that the want to do it, on. At college they'll probably have had to audition for the roles in their shows, so they're really aware of how good they are in the great scale of talent.

Many A Level people will tell the panel how they dream, eat and sleep their desire to perform - yet haven't done any at all? The good places are always oversubscribed and want to take people who will stay the course, not drop out when they find it too tough, or not as 'fun' as they thought. If they consider an auditionee is not 100% solid, they'll pass and move on to te next person.

They just need an answer to this question "What productions have you been in?" a 20 min potted version of something in front of their class mates is NOT performing!

[tikka]

Glad I've just read through this thread.

DS had an audition at a local college for the BTEC Acting course the level 3 thats = to 3 A levels. It was a brief 30 minute session shared with 4 other students,they had a quick 10 min talk about the course, then they took it in turns to do a 2 min monologue. The tutor asked them 1 qu each about the character they chose. He didn't even get to see the teaching rooms. He left with the offer of a place but very discouraged by the whole process. The course is crammed into 2.5 days a week and they can do other A levels if it fits the timetable. As he said, did he really want to spend 2 years working with someone who made so little effort with the audition process. i didn't want him to completely dismiss it so I have since contacted the college and DS is going to observe a Yr1 and Yr 2 class to see what they are like.

He has since applied to 2 more colleges and has interviews booked. At one they do a 1 hour workshop, listen to a presentation, do a monologue and then have an interview with 2 tutors. The course is timetabled over 4 days a week At the other one they hear a presentation, do a monologue, have an interview. If they pass that they then go back for a full day of workshops etc in the summer term. The best are then offered a place.

I have found the whole process quite scary especially as the tutors are responsible for delivering and assessing the course. The differences between the colleges is huge. As you will know from a previous thread on this topic I am in 2 minds about the A levels or BTEC route. The experience at the first college was enough to put anyone off a BTEC!

[Welsh Mum]

I have found the whole process quite scary especially as the tutors are responsible for delivering and assessing the course. The differences between the colleges is huge.

You have hit the nail on the head - the staff/college attitude is of crucial importance. when they get it right it is a great course. When they don't it can be poor. The main thing is to do as you have done, do your homework, ask questions and visit/apply to more than one.

[islandofsodor]

Dd is far too young yet to be making such decisions (although at the tender age of 9 she knows where she wants to audition bless her!!!!!) but interestingly dh who teaches at several MT colleges/drama schools which are regurlaly mentioned on these threads is against her going the BTEC route. He wants her to do A levels. However it would be combined with out of school dance/drama/singing classes and I am guessing that once she is old enough to do amdram she will be joining a group.

When I did my A levels I remember my drama teacher looking down on amateur and youth theatre as beneath us. I didn't take any notice and did several shows. What I do notice is that many schools are encouraging children to give up extra curricular activities such as drama classes so that they can "concentrate ontheir schoolwork". They are doing things like scheduling twilight revision sessions etc that clash and we are losing kids earlier and earlier.

its very short sighted in my opinion as I beleive universities look for this sort of involvment in things.

[Welsh Mum]

Your DH's comments are interesting, as 3 of my DD's BTEC teachers also teach/taught on the MT courses at 2 of the top colleges (Arts Ed and Mountview - one was Deputy Head of MT there before joining DDs college) and they thought the BTEC was the best preparation. I just think its down to individual interpretation, also whether they have taught A levels or BTEC them selves which may also colour their view.

[mathsmum]

jem - can i suggest going on to tes connect and registering - you don't have to be a teacher

a number of us post on both

there's a performing arts forum you may find useful to peruse

[islandofsodor]

ONe thing dh has commented on recentlyis the lack of thought and preparation that students are giving to auditions.

An ex student from a secondary school where he used to teach peripatetically contacted him by email a couple of weeks ago for audition advice. The email arrived on the Tuesday and her audition was the following Thursday!!!!!! I haven't seen her for 2 years he said, I don't know what her voice is sounding like at the moment and she lives 50 miles away plus I am iun London most of the week. What on earth can I do for her?

Welshmum, am I correct in thinking that your dd's teacher was an EVT teacher. Dh knows some people who teach at the colleges you mention. He was offered some work at one of them but had to turn it down as he had other commitments.

[Welsh Mum]

Yes one of them is an Estill teacher. One of the advantages of mt DDs BTEC course was they had a whole unit on audition preparation. They had a mock audition day with a top director/performer on the panel, and had audition practice in Acting, Singing and Dance. There is no way she would be as prepared at A level as many school teachers have very little expreience of drama college auditions.

[showtunes]

I have been reading through all the posts as my DD and i are also wondering what to do.She leaves school this summer and has 2 college places,one is to study A levels in eng lit,music,performance studies and drama and theatre studies, the other college place is for a perfroming arts diploma in muscial theatre in level 3(full time course) She has induction days coming up this summer which will hopefully help her make her mind up.I know she is veering more towards the level 3 diploma but says when she has mentioned it to her teachers they seem to look "down" on it. You need 5 GCSE's to gain each college place so ive told her this isnt an academic choice for her but to go with what feels right and what she will be happy doing for the next two years.Ultimately she wants to perfrom in musical theatre and will hopefully go on to a drama school when she is 18.The level 3 would be more hands on and would prepare her for that.

What concerns me is,if she decides in 2 yrs that the arts isnt for her what can she do with her qualification? Where as if she goes for the separate A-levels i suppose she could build on them more? Its so confusing.Any help would be most appreciated.

[tikka]

Hi Showtunes

We are at exactly the same point as you and your dd. Wanting in his heart to do the BTec, but knowing A levels carry more weight. When ever we mention 'BTec' we get the same thing, A levels are more impressive......to people who have little BTec experience.

We are thinking of Btec for the passion and an OU course to be sensible! OU courses fees are currently means tested, so if your child has no income then they receive funding which pays for the course. Some universities accept 120 OU points instead of A levels. Or maybe do the Btec and follow the dream, then see what happens....she could always do A levels after the BTec.

Its so hard to make such big decisions at this age.

Tikka.

[paulears]

A Levels are not more impressive, they're just something that everyone can grasp. The Government have spent a fortune on a new Qualification Credit Framework - that's in place, and this is the latest attempt to sort out the 'worth' of qualifications. Use musical qualifications as a good example. Associated Board Grade exams were the standard for years, and then Rockschool came along as 'fun' grades, often viewed rather snobbishly by 'real' musicians. However, they had a close association with Trinity, and the acceptance and quality of their system was validated. This too sits on the new QCF list.

Some careers rely on remembering huge amounts of facts and figures, social ability and physical 'doing' things don't matter that much. Anybody know Doctors or Solicitors or finance people with dreadful social skills - I certainly do? However, this is exactly why our interest area is not best served by A Levels.

I thought I'd said this before - so forgive me for repeating it, but if (and thankfully there never will be) an A Level in being an Electrician, the exam question would ask how to wire up a socket in your kitchen. The candidate would respond with " I would use a double 13A socket in a standard wall box, wired using a ring circuit in 2.5mm flat twin and earth back to a consumer unit with a 32A mcb. They'd get a nice grade. In BTEC, they'd set the same question, and then say OK - you've got 30 mins, do it! If the kettle could be plugged in a a cup of tea produced, they'd get the grade. Which would you rather have doing you house rewire? One who knew all about the specs, or one that had actually done it, and had it pass a safety test?

When I see the doctor, and list my symptoms, I'd rather like him to say, ah - those symptoms fit an obscure jungle disease discovered in 1940 - the treatment is ...... or would you rather them start with an aspirin and see if it worked, and if not - try something else?

A Levels, BTEC and even Rockschool exams now all have a place on a proper framework where they have credit values set by experts. Just pick the best one for the person, not others who think they know best.

A Distinction in BTEC is worth much more than 3 mid grade A Levels to a university with strict entry requirements.

[showtunes]

A Levels are not more impressive, they're just something that everyone can grasp. The Government have spent a fortune on a new Qualification Credit Framework - that's in place, and this is the latest attempt to sort out the 'worth' of qualifications. Use musical qualifications as a good example. Associated Board Grade exams were the standard for years, and then Rockschool came along as 'fun' grades, often viewed rather snobbishly by 'real' musicians. However, they had a close association with Trinity, and the acceptance and quality of their system was validated. This too sits on the new QCF list.

Some careers rely on remembering huge amounts of facts and figures, social ability and physical 'doing' things don't matter that much. Anybody know Doctors or Solicitors or finance people with dreadful social skills - I certainly do? However, this is exactly why our interest area is not best served by A Levels.

I thought I'd said this before - so forgive me for repeating it, but if (and thankfully there never will be) an A Level in being an Electrician, the exam question would ask how to wire up a socket in your kitchen. The candidate would respond with " I would use a double 13A socket in a standard wall box, wired using a ring circuit in 2.5mm flat twin and earth back to a consumer unit with a 32A mcb. They'd get a nice grade. In BTEC, they'd set the same question, and then say OK - you've got 30 mins, do it! If the kettle could be plugged in a a cup of tea produced, they'd get the grade. Which would you rather have doing you house rewire? One who knew all about the specs, or one that had actually done it, and had it pass a safety test?

When I see the doctor, and list my symptoms, I'd rather like him to say, ah - those symptoms fit an obscure jungle disease discovered in 1940 - the treatment is ...... or would you rather them start with an aspirin and see if it worked, and if not - try something else?

A Levels, BTEC and even Rockschool exams now all have a place on a proper framework where they have credit values set by experts. Just pick the best one for the person, not others who think they know best.

A Distinction in BTEC is worth much more than 3 mid grade A Levels to a university with strict entry requirements.

Thankyou Paulears, that was a great way of putting it and i agree with you,practical experiance counts for a lot more than just sitting exams.

The level 3 diploma in musical theatre that i mentioned my DD may do,is that also known as a BTEC then,just asking as it doesnt say so on the course details.