NotaPushyMum.Com

Paul ears,
What in your opinion is enough dance wise? I have done quite a bit of acting work (im not a singer so musical theatre is out for me). I honestly dont know where to start to get professional dance work, any tips/advice would be much appreciated!
Phoebe x

My dd is 5ft 10.
We were also worried height wise, but got 3 DaDA offers when she auditioned 2 years ago.

Any paid work would be out of the window. I don't think I have seen anybody over 5ft in any childs role whether West End or tv or film. She has when she was much smaller done some nice parts, but apart from one with an opera company 3 years ago when she had just nudged past 5ft she hasn't had anything since. At one stage she grew 6" in 6 weeks and then everything since then has been voice over work.

Around here unless you are looking to pay to be in a play, there really is nothing apart from a panto backing dancer. (that does not go on her c.v. she does that for fun) Only thing where although you don't get paid it does cost nothing and not everyone gets through the audition process. Just as an aside we travel 44 miles twice per week so she can do her singing lesson, dance and drama.

I am probably over thinking things but I have seen enough graduation shows to know that although some of the ones on stage are good singers and dancers etc I sit there wondering what job they are going to get as they are physically not what you see on stage in most musical theatre roles or dance roles.

It is not getting into a college that I am actually worried about it is more what she would do when she comes out if she went down the MT route given her height and the fact there are better dancers out there.
I would prefer for her to concentrate on either Music or Drama not Musical Theatre. With music especially it wouldn't matter whether you were 7ft 3 square it is about how you sing not whether you fit in with other peoples ideas of what you physically look like.

The trouble with these kinds of questions is that they generalise, and I'm not really sure that that works that well, because you have so many strands of potential work. Some people, lets use girls rather than fellas here, are naturally pretty. They have memorable faces, or features, perhaps even including hair. This, often to the younger kids, means they believe that this is the 'idea', but it isn't. Some of the people I know who I see on holdings, posters and TV quite often are actually easy to miss without the makeup, and have faces that don't stick in the memory - but they work loads because they makeup well and can wear wigs. They appear in loads of ad campaigns because they look lovely, and 'real' - not these plastic people we see on celebrity TV and magazines.

If people go to open auditions, then they go looking right, having checked what the clients are looking for by being a bit nosey with the internet.

With unemployment in the industry for the performing people very high, and new people coming in at the bottom each year, the work goes to the ones who are not one-trick ponies. Can anyone nowadays be just one thing? Dancers who can't sing or learn lines, or actors who do dad dancing, or singers who can't move? It's an audition/interview killer. I cheerfully tell people I'm not an expert at anything, but over the years I have done pretty well every job going, and never been exposed as a fraud. In panto, one of my jobs is to watch the rehearsals and work out who will understudy the key artistes. It's frustrating when you know somebody will fit, but then you find they can't sing! Other times you discover really useful extras - the dancer who turns out to be a qualified physiotherapist. Most handy person around, and when she got to be the oldest dancer, I had to insist the choreographer included her over the newbies.

I suspect nowadays that any parent who chooses a career pathway for their kids is doing a dangerous thing. So many times do I find people in totally the wrong career path. They would be a fantastic amateur, getting the lead roles, or they could be a brilliant dance teacher, but they're never going to get ahead in the professional arena. Parents can never see this, for obvious reasons, but even when teaching, in desperation I'd often say "why are you on this course?" and the answer would be that their parents said it would be the best thing for them. In twelve years of teaching in college - I had a good success record with my people, but now, the very first intake of students are in their late thirties. I'm still in touch with most of them, and perhaps 3 are still doing it, the rest doing all sorts of stuff, not at all linked to performing arts. Its exactly the same with music students - so many moving out of their study area.

I also worry a bit about the children working in professional theatre - the number of child actors who go through to professional acting is very, very small - and although the current protection laws are a good thing, it does prevent close contact with people who can advance your career. Look at Miss Saigon - a huge list of child actors in that role - but is it a role at all? They just run on cue and get carried about and spoken to? Their few lines are stilted and how would anyone know if they are talented or not? When you have older kids, they are much better - proper actors/singers/dancers, but their 'status' is very low, and I know many producers who don't even remember their names. Just perhaps a few special ones. If a child role needs a tall girl, then it's easier to cast an adult who looks young. The tall dancer in a dance school show always stands out in an age selected group. In the pro world, age is not as important, if you want short fat thin or tall you just get them. As long as they are old enough that's it. I've been watching an old episode of Dr Who - loads of very tall women - I guess the casting director put the call out and asked the agencies for tall people.

Don't forget the hidden casting that goes on when applying for colleges/dance colleges etc - they're perhaps even casting their final year show when they audition and interview. Make sure we have at least one short dumpy one, and a couple who are really tall. They will never write it down, but a cohort of jelly mould people can be really restricting, casting wise!

I'm stuck today - one ASM short. I've got an ex-student dancer doing it. She's given up cruise ships and is now a primary school teacher. She will be fine for what I need. I called and she said 'fine'. Narrow is bad. Width is good (in knowledge maybe not in size?)

Just an update. I put her in for the audition for NYMT. Turning into the biggest mistake I could have done.
Having had a quick look at the shows I really didn't quite know which show she would be put forward for as she really didn't match look wise or height wise any of the productions. One she wouldn't have been considered for as she is too old. The other 2 wanted people to play children or Germanic looking 14year olds. She is very tall and has a very ethnic look going on. So I knew even before she started that the likelyhood of her getting a part was slim to none existent. I didn't mention my concerns to her so as not to put her off.
Rejection email received and up to a point she was not that bothered, she knew they were looking far and wide and she said she had looked at the characters for the shows and had realised that she didn't fit any parts but did hope that she would have done well enough for a recall. But when she found out someone had been recalled that she saw audition it has really upset her. The only thing I can say to her is she looked the part, blonde blue eyed and 5ft 2".

My daughter is now convinced that unless you look a certain way there is no way she is going to get anywhere. The problem being it is confirmed by people at every audition.

So sorry that you feel this way,it is a tough age and just awful for her if she feels rejected.The last thing you want is her to feel insecure about her height,it may well affect her in auditions and might not get a part due to that,not her height.
I have a DD who might be tall, all her dance class envy her long legs,she has good poise and looks elegant but I have had to ask her teacher not to comment on her body,remarks like "she is developing nicely" shouldn't be made (She didn't mean her dancing ability) Image is everything these days for young people,whether we like it or not,we just have to help them survive it.
Also hasn't anyone ever wondered why men are so short these days?...

I don't think it is even her height that she is worried about but the fact she knows she can sing and dance and act, I know she can sing and dance and act, her teachers know she can sing and dance and act but she ends up in an audition with someone who can't and they get through and she doesn't and it is based I think solely down to looks.

Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be anything out there that covers her look.

Sorry meant to say it was not only her height that she is worried about.

Would she consider focusing on acting, with possibly singing as a side line? If she used her height to her advantage, she would have potential as a fantastic character actress, where the blond, blue eyed petite dancers would not stand a chance. I'm thinking along the lines of Madame Thenardier from Les Mis, or the fantastic tall friend in Mamma Mia, where height can be such an advantage. My DD (5" 9) did YMT last year. They are such a fantastic group of people, maybe you could give then a ring, explain your concerns and see what advice they could give you?

Sorry to hear your DD is having a rough time, Millet. I don't know whether or not this will be at all helpful for you/her to know, but when DS applied to the NYMT three years ago, the recalls were specific to not just a show but a part, so it might not be that she didn't ' do well enough'.

Best wishes.

Try not to be disheartened by this rejection. NYMT audition huge numbers of children. 14 is a tricky age to cast and in a couple of years time she may be considered for adult roles. Wouldn't it be great to be a fly on the wall at auditions to see what goes on ? Whereabouts do you live ? I know lots of excellent amateur musical theatre groups in the south for her to utilise her talents. Also a lot of the main theatre schools run Saturday schools and work on audition technique. This is an art in itself.

She is 16, already and as I had said the shows that NYMT were doing this year I didn't think matched her look not just her height.

Given family circumstances at the moment I suggested to her that she might think about not actually going to college this year and just go out to find work. I thought she would dismiss it but she actually thinks the idea is brilliant. She could then continue with dance drama and singing lessons and see where if anywhere it might lead.

FE college courses are usually 4 days a week if your child doesn't need to retake any GCSEs so maybe your DD could do her MT course and some part time work and I suggest National Youth Theatre master classes or YMT skills classes that do not require any auditions. NYT do a good one in audition technique. There are also easter and summer courses at many colleges eg Bird College do them. These do cost money but if she works PT she can contribute. The week intensives can be really helpful for confidence and to see what level other people are at without it being too competitive at that stage.

Her MT course will probably put on real shows with parts to audition for too so that will be fun and a challenge. If she is thinking about MT then get a singing teacher for lessons outside college too and carry on with dance lessons if she takes these - ballet tap and jazz/modern if possible (well I would say necessary really tbh) . Look out for any local am dram productions she might be able to try for. There are quite a few places nowadays that employ 16+ as "scare actors" at Halloween or similar at other events - they can earn a bit of cash from acting (and have fun).

Try not to get worried about height - there are some great MT stars like Sutton Foster who are tall and many actresses - look at Cate Blanchett. DD is 5'8 and absolutely loving her MT BTEC
BTW I would recommend YMT over NYMT (maybe controversially!) but I think they do more shows and lots of completely new ones so there is more chance to get in (more places available) and wider net of young people chosen. DD did it and loved it. I may be wrong but don't they have to stay in education of some sort til 18 now unless on an apprenticeship?

Also just to say that DD did try a performing arts course but changed after a term to MT as PA one wasn't active or challenging enough, she likes to be physically active and her MT course is better for this. Might have just been that particular college or course though. Meant to say good luck - I know it is tough we have had similar worries with height and other physical things and it can be hard but if your DD wants to try then like mine I say go for it and put those negative thoughts to one side.

Just an update dd went eventually for YMT and got a part in one of their productions.

She also tried out for a couple of MT colleges. She was rejected for both. Both rejections left everyone stunned she didn't get in. However out of the blue I got an offer from one of the colleges she was rejected for as they had spare places as some offers had not been taken up.

Still unsure as to what to do as she has at least one more college to audition for which is the one I picked as being the one most suited for her. Offering the course I think she would be better suited for.