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That makes much more sense!

DS has only taken Grades 5 and 8, but has covered everything included in the other grades.

Thanks guys I feel better now!
We got there in the end didn't we

It depends an awful lot on what the youngster wants out of it really. Some love collecting certificates - like the dancers do, but equally there can be very many very good musicians who have not done the start at grade 1 route. The comment about 5 and 8 is very, very common - and I'd count myself in that one. In fact, I did Grades 1 to 4 in primary school, and frankly hated it. I never did the practice seriously, and to be honest - I'm still bad at practice, but like doing. Grade 5 sort of services the rules of music - setting what is traditionally accepted as 'proper'. Modern music ignores many of the rules, but, most still make good sense. Once the rules are established, then going towards Grade 8 tests the skills and their ear, plus the sight reading. If somebody goes into the forces as a bandsman, then (as happened to one of my ex-students) playing the viola is fine, but she was told that there's not much point in playing the viola if you're marching - so she got told she was playing the trumpet! She got just a few short weeks to get up to grade 8, and did it. She got taught how to do the mechanical bits, the technique and the fingering. The rest was music skills and hard work.

It's so easy to check up on the teachers - just ask them for contact details for some of their students and ask their parents how they get on. Some teachers are really into grades, and spend all their time focusing on tests - others are more interested in music, and don't like grades at all. You pick the one that suits. Singing teachers are all VERY different, and because styles really matter - you must find one that works for you. A choral style teacher will be very different to a pop teacher. I love it when they get to the question "when can I belt?" Too early is dangerous, physically - too late means unlearning, which is difficult. Some teachers never even teach it - voice training is so amazingly wide.

All private tuition should be selected with proper research, and this means talking to people and being nosey!

Well said, Paulears, as always!

My DS was lucky enough to be 'poached' by his current teacher when he saw him performing. I say lucky, as he quickly identified that DS had huge potential but was being taught very very badly - even down to how he was holding his sticks, his posture etc.

Since his first trial lesson with him, DS has never looked back. His teacher immediately put him in for Grade 5, but veered off quite frequently into other (and more demanding) things. Even whilst preparing him for his Grade 8, he still fitted in lots of other stuff, including sight-reading session scores etc.

He has always tried to give him a full insight into the music business, and, in particular, what it's like to be a jobbing drummer. He has taken him to gigs with him, let him sit with him in the pit when he was playing for a show, and has alloed him to help with many workshops he has been running with children and adults, including those with special needs. This is definitely opened DS' eyes as to the different kind of things he may like (or be forced!) to do in the future in order to make a good living out of playing the drums (once he's been a superstar rock drummer first, of course!!!!).

In fact, his teacher said to DS something along the lines of "Let's get Grade 8 out of the way and then I can really start to teach you how to drum!".

DS says his teacher is like his best friend, and they have a very good, relaxed relationship. However, his teacher does not beat about the bush and will tell him if his playing is not up to his usual standard etc.

I think what I'm trying to say is you all have to feel happy about your choice of teacher, and not every teacher will suit every pupil. We are lucky we found this one second time around (or, rather, he found us!), and that DS is so relaxed with him.

I'll shut up now!

Good stuff.

I thought I'd add this, because at the moment I'm watching a Phil Collins audience with programme where he's performing Motown and old stuff. It's important because it kind of puts what we're talking about into perspective and maybe shows some of the modern musicians in a less 'talented'? light.

I've always been a bit of a Phil Collins fan - and when he did the Big Band thing, he had to teach himself to read drum music, but looking carefully at the band for this programme, they're all reading - and the band includes people he's played with for years - who are all able to read music. So many kids today can be 'musicians' without any formal training - but how many of them could switch from their chosen style/type of music and just play new (old) stuff like this?

The last part of this post is a reversal of what I've just said. From Monday to Thursday, I've been playing in the band for a High School end of year, Performing Arts show. They have a music department, a full-time and a part-time music teacher - and have peripatetics for proper music lessons. The drummer was the drum teacher, the keyboards came from the piano teacher, the guitarist was the Head of Drama's dad, and I used to be her teacher playing bass guitar. Not a student in sight! We had the music teacher 'conducting', and her sister playing flute. This amazed me. None of their music students either wanted to do it, or were up to it! The music teacher is a lovely lady, but has never been a musical director before, no experience at all of shows/pit bands. The drummer and I have had plenty, so could cope, but what worried me most was the dreaded Grade 8 serious musician syndrome, as I call it. We got to the house being open and the audience were coming in, and the 1960s CD to play for the 1960s show (A Slice of Saturday Night) wouldn't play. The drummer said - House of the Rising Sun. The pianist yelled "what key" - the guitarist said "A minor" and the grade 8 flautist said "have you got the music?". We figured she was just too young, so after doing this one, we asked her for any songs from the 60s she liked. She immediately gave us a list. Some Everley Brothers, Searchers, Gerry and the Pacemakers, the Beatles and Heard it through the Grapevine. However, she could not play any of them by ear. This is my major gripe. They can read excellently, the are proficient at sight reading. They cannot, however, just play songs that they know quite well, and they certainly can't improvise.

If anybody has a music teacher of any type, getting them to teach them the rudiments of playing by ear and basic improvisation is a key skill, and one that will make them much more employable. The kids who don't learn music properly, and play by ear have a distinct advantage in this area. If you have family having singing lessons, see if the music teacher can teach scat singing - Cleo Laine was excellent at that, so they can improvise around chord progressions.

The grade 8 girl in our band was essentially useless without music - and it's quite common. What other things don't get covered? Can a grade 8 sax player growl, can a grade 8 violinist play Irish style. Can the grade 8 clarinet person do the big glissando in Rhapsody in Blue, can the flute play the improvised flute solos in Carpenters music? Big band music is now very popular - but how many grade 8 people can swing? That's a really big jump to people trained in rigid timekeeping.


The grade system is very narrow, but quite deep - so it misses out a lot of real musician skills. In the exams where they tap out a rhythm and the student repeats it - that hardly tests them in something they can actually use. Grade 5 theory provides a very good base for the essential skills, but frequently the teachers don't ever go away from the very rigid syllabus.

Brilliant post, as always! I totally agree!!! I have never been very keen on just chasing pieces of paper, and DS certainly isn't! The only reason his teacher suggested he get his Grade 8 under his belt is because a lot of people seem to use it as a benchmark........meaning, that if a band was looking for a drummer to dep for a gig they wouldn't look twice at DS as he is still quite young, but if he tells them he has Grade 8 then they will use him! Stupid, I know, but there you are!

The more you write, Paulears, the more I realise how lucky DS is to have the teacher he has. He has always exposed him to different styles of music across the board, including Latin, Samba, Jazz, Blues, Rock, Metal, Disco, Funk and marching band-type snare techniques........even taking him with him when he was depping for a Country and Western band at a Barn Dance!!! As he said - if you have to put food on the table and pay the mortgage, you can't afford to turn down £300 for one evening's work because you're not keen on the style of music!

We have just dropped DS off for a residential music weekend organised by the CAT scheme he's part of, and we left him 'jamming' with 3 lads on ukuleles, one on a penny whistle, a few singers and an acoustic guitar! That's certainly diverse!!!

That's really great - a really sensible teacher. The bit about paying the bills is so right. When you are self-employed, you can't really be that choosy. As a dep - you just say yes, and then find out what it is when you get there - well, almost. Strict tempo ballroom dancing, musicals, C&W, rock and roll, and Abba shows have all rolled in, and I've just finished a ballet music project - so anything goes really. I don't think I've ever said no to a job yet, although when anybody mentions West Side Story, I cringe because it's so hard!