NotaPushyMum.Com

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I don't think the argument is about who deserves it more, its about the means testing being fairer to people who are in the middle income bracket. I have one ds in his first year at uni and in 2 years second ds will go to uni and dd will want to go to performing arts college. That will be 3 children who will need funding help from us!! And believe me maintenance loans for uni don't even cover the accommodation let alone food, books etc!!
So we may earn a bit more but we can't afford £15,000 a year on top of all other commitments!

I think most people will agree that what needs looking at is the income to contribution ratio to make it fair to everyone.

I think the problem with DaDA funding is the lack of access to student loans. If the student (from any background) could take on the financial burden in the same way they can for maintained (University type) courses, there wouldn't be the same "falling between two stools" problem that there is here.

However, I do agree with funnygirl that there is unlikely to be very much public sympathy for the problems faced for arts funding (whether that is for training, of for any other aspect of the arts). It's a vastly overcrowded marketplace and although the DaDA funding is likely to cause a lot of problems for a lot of families it will not be regarded as a priority to get worked up about for those not directly affected. I would rather see student loans available to cover the shortfall for families that can't afford it (and I know there will be many of them).

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QueenBeexoxo, I am not sure that is strictly true. Higher income is also taxed at a higher level so unless you are very high income it is a real struggle, particularly if you have more than one child. Also, regarding "life experience", I know people from all walks of life who have amazing life experience to draw on and performance is not affected by income. My family are considered "higher income" and we really scrabble around to get my son through drama school. He lost his father in the most tragic of circumstances so I am at a bit of a loss as to how he is any less worthy of following his dreams.

QueenBeexoxo wrote:People in the middle class have a higher income than those in the lower class.
I don't think its unfair that middle class don't get means tested. They usually have JOINT income and earn a lot of money.
You tend to find that a LOT of successful actors and actresses are those that come from low income families as they have more life experience leading to a more genuine performance using raw emotion with control, as opposed to being trained at a stage school since they were 3 or 5.

I think you need to be careful of your generalisations here...have you not read and digested any of the points made in this thread?
No-one is saying their shouldn't be means testing, what we are saying is it should be fairer.

As for your very derogatory comment about those children who may be at performing arts school, there is room in the acting profession for all no matter where they may have been schooled, everyone has life experiences to call on in their acting work,and there are parts for everyone.. Benedict Cumberbatch may not play the same roles Danny Dyer plays, but both have equal merit.

Also be very careful of judging who has joint incomes and who doesn't, pertaining to what class they may belong to, you are guilty of stereo-typing here and have likely offended many of us here who have been supportive to your previous posts for help

you might like to review what you have written...
and also by the way, I might be classed as middle class what ever that means nowadays, I am a nurse, I work damned hard for a wage that isnt brilliant, and I studied hard to get my qualification. My money goes nowhere near being able to afford training for my son NOWHERE near, nothing like your "alot" of money ...but that's ok, my son is denied his dream because I work to pay for others to achieve theirs

where I come from (the East end of London) we call that bloody unfair!!!

QueenBeexoxo wrote:Personally, I think people from a LOWER class family deserve DADA funding than those from a MIDDLE class.

I have to share a bed with my daughter cause we live in a studio flat and I think people in similar situations deserve the money more as they don't have the luxury of taking their kids to stage school - which costs lots - and our children can only apply to a limited amount of drama schools. And they have more life experience, which is looked upon at Drama School as opposed to performing experience.

no do we love !!
and I promise you my son has plenty of life experience as you call it!!
as for life experience you come across as incredibly naive by making such sweeping statements and judgements

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Well put riverdance.

Like you we work incredibly hard but I would certainly not consider myself middle class!!

Just a hard working family from a working class background trying to keep our heads above water and do the best for our kids!!!!

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QueenBeexoxo wrote:So many successful actors and actresses have been homeless, taking on 5 minimum paid jobs and working so hard to achieve their dream.

Those without independent wealth do indeed need to take on other jobs (though I'm not sure why it needs to be 5 of them ) but this is true of most actors including those from middle class families. I think you are being a touch melodramatic on this thread.

Success as an adult actor rarely has anything to do with whether children have been to stage schools/youth theatre and summer schools - I think that is a red herring and not what is being debated here.

The problem with the way DaDA funding has been changed is that it will mean that a lot of middle income families will not be able to afford to provide their children with the support necessary to train. That hasn't made it fairer, because it is cutting them out of the picture. A sliding scale is the fairest way - but if there isn't enough money, the family can't magic it up from somewhere - and as there are no student loans available for DaDA students then the students can't go. Those at the top end (money wise) and the bottom end (money wise) do therefore have an advantage over SOME in the middle.

Are you really the Mum or the daughter by the way? If you are Mum then I can see where dd's dramatic tendencies come from.

It's ridiculous to suggest that someone will be a better actor because of being involved in crimes and living around criminals . Drama schools do value life experience but it means living in the real world - and that does include a world involving all sorts of people: middle class people too, believe it or not! Class is a red herring too, of course. Drama schools like to see people from all backgrounds and ranges of experience - and it is certainly true that the middle classes are "over-represented" statistically - just as it's true for musicians etc. - but it doesn't mean that they are not as valued as actors. Statistically, one could claim that the middle classes are at a disadvantage (not that I am doing so). You have some rather odd ideas in my opinion.

QueenBeexoxo wrote:And with regards to my LIFE EXPERIENCE comment - I meant that People from lower class know how to value what they have and are not selfish. They know what it is like to live with virtually nothing and have a constant struggle. They are the people who dream about having their own bedroom! A luxury such as a bedroom, is taking for granted by so many people.
We have life experience in the case of going through unique situations being involved in so many different crimes and living around criminals. We actually see the REAL world. REAL people.

and of course we don't !!

I cant be bothered to even answer you any more ...you think you are unique in going without? let me tell you , I see the realities of hardship every day in my job and have experienced plenty in my own life..my son doesn't go to stage school and my hubby ( yes I have one..is that wrong too?) work hundreds of extra hours a year to pay for anything he does
why should he be denied a future training any more than the next kid?
We are talking about equality in training here - that is all.

it's the super rich you should be spitting your indignation at..not the likes of us who work to support those who don't, and those who earn millions,

you could feed the village with the chips on your shoulder!!

I know PLENTY of people from lower classes as you call it who are selfish as the next person, and many generous wonderful people from the middle classes - you need to stop generalising about everyone and everything,
so to be a nice person you need to working class and to be nasty and greedy you need to be middle class - well ,there's sociology in a nutshell!!

I shall leave you to dig your own ignorant hole and fall right in it! - I am done!!

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Well, I'm afraid it means I think you are very dramatic! You can be melodramatic and right you know I do it all the time

If the current rules and changes of DaDA are helping you, then of course you are likely to celebrate that - who could blame you? I don't know what you mean by middle class to be honest? I think you/most might regard me as middle class - in terms of education/accent/interests/parental careers etc. However, I was fortunate enough to receive a DaDA and my children received government support because our family is/was very low income.

You do have quite a combative style of posting - we're not used to it here on NAPM! The problem with it is that it can quickly descend into a pitched battle and that would be a pity.
I agree with riverdancefan that it would be a great pity if we just sniped at one another. It's something this government seems to be getting very good at: getting those half way down the income ladder and those at the bottom to fall out with one another . It takes attention away from those at the top (ooh, contentious? political? I am getting daring in me old age).

QueenBeexoxo wrote:PG -
Firstly, I am NOT being melodramatic. Just cause I don't conform to the opinions of others doesn't mean I'm wrong.
I am the mum, btw. My DD is out handing out CVs to try and get a job, and she is not like every other person claiming JSA - she refuses to.
The changes to DADA are being made by people who know what they are talking about.

"If you are Mum then I can see where dd's dramatic tendencies come from." - What exactly is that supposed to mean???



RiverDanceFan
I never stated that I am "unique". That's just an assumption made by you. And it is incredibly rude to call someone ignorant who is simply expressing their views and NOT conforming with everyone elses opinion.
It seems this board is just made up of "middle class" who have it easy. By easy, I mean taking for granted what they have. Take that all away and you will see why the changes to DADA are being made.

Personally, I don't see why just cause I am expressing my views as someone from the other side of the coin, with whom the DADA is HELPING, I am being attacked.

Its also incredibly rude to lump everyone together and judge them as you have done, assumptions come easy to you, and you criticize me for make them???

and yes you are being attacked by me just as you have attacked ME in your posts for wanting a fairer system
if you don't like the middle classes who frequent the board here (more crazy sweeping statements) then simply don't post here.. find a working class board where you might feel at home..

No-one is saying the Dada isnt there to help people like you , but it should also help others who don't have the money you seem to think we all have !


or shall I just make the cheque out to you directly???