NotaPushyMum.Com

Hi Everyone.
This is my first time on this board and I wondering if I can have some help. My DD took her Grade 5 Clarinet and Grade 6 singing last week with the Trinity Guildhall Exam Board. Her teacher from school has just phoned to say that she has failed both exams which none of us were expecting. She is a perfectionist and has always done well at everything. I know that we all have to learn not to pass everything but I am worried that she will give up her music if she knows she has failed. I have two other children and the eldest who has always got at least 90/100 a hundred in all her Grade exams only got 66 this time in her Grade 7 singing even though the teacher was confident she was going to get a distinction. On top of this my youngest daughter is supposed to be taking her Grade 5 sinigng this weekend and I am worried that this will un nerve her.
Any advice is gratefully recieved it probalby sounds as though I don't think hcildren should fail, that isn't the case, I am just shocked and I don't know how to deal with this. ](*,

Oh dear, does your dd know or will you have to break the news to her this evening. Dont worry I am sure there must be loads of kids and adults who has failed these exams. Hopefully it will make her more determined to do better in the next exam. Chin up its only an exam and Im sure your dd has loads of time to make up for this. How old is your dd ?

With Music Grade exams, my experience is that it's very rare for somebody to fail, and be surprised. Musicians know when they get it wrong.

If she really is likely to give up music because she fails, then that's probably a good thing, because the learning curve as you get towards grade 8 gets really steep. Keeping up with siblings and too much attention to the actual grades is pretty destructive. You have no idea what happened in the exam, and she just needs to take it on the chin, do more practice and do it again - if that's what she wants. I failed my grade 5 theory first time, and it made me work harder. Musicians are very often perfectionists, so a failure is normally the kick up the bum they need. Personally - I don't think you should hide the failure, because at some point you will have to tell her, and if you've known for even a day or two, she may take this worse than the failure itself.

It sounds as if you're more concerned than she might be - I've always thought a few failures as actually beneficial - the first time one of the 'always gets the top grade' kids receives anything else, they can't cope and fall to pieces as if it's the end of the world. A few failures on the way is a good way to realise you are not the best - and it's a shock the first time. If they really get upset, and want to give up, then it's not years wasted, is it?

For what it's worth, I've often thought the singing exams are actually harder, because you can mess up badly, more easily - if you know what I mean.
Paul

Thanks for your replys. I probably sound like a pushy mum but I'm not. The accompanist came out the exam and said that they thought she had bagged a distinction and the teacher can't work it out either especially given how low the results of all her students were. She doesn't know yet, I have that news to break to her. A friend also said that a fail is logged against the child's record which worries me enormously as she hopes to go on to study music at university.
Really worried about how to deal with this as it is so out of the blue. Sorry to moan.

Sorry Bruno 2 my daughter is 13. Is this too young to be taking Grade 6 singing? I have been told something about the voice needing to mature.

Have you got the comments sheet yet, Musicmummy? Maybe it's not worth mentioning if not, until you know exactly what went wrong (and especially in light of the other exams later in the week)

It sounds odd to me, and if the accompanist was so complimentary, I can only think there will be something on the comments sheet that absolutely shouts something out that you'd not thought of.

And I don't know what the form is because I've never come across it before, but if you disagree with the adjudication, is it challengeable?

That's also really quick for the results to be back, isn't it? so if you need more feedback (which I reckon you should be able to get when it's such an unexpected result) at least it's not that far in the past that the examiner won't remember her? I would imagine it's quite unusual for people to fail, even at this level, because the fact that they're doing this level generally means they've worked their way up from the lower grades?

Firstly let me reassure your dd a fail will not hinder her in the future. The exam board won;t pass those sort of details on to anyone. For uni entry the higher grades do aquire UCAS points but they will go by the last grade taken.

I failed my Grade 7 piano first time and still went to uni to study music.

Howveer something doesn't sound right and you need to look at the mark sheet. You can usually only query results if there is a clear discrepancy for example the comments do not match the marks. It makes me wonder if there was some aspect of the syllabus where a mistake was made in the preparation.

However saying that errors do happen. Dd's LAMDA results were hugely held up due to there being a discrepancy with a particular examier but it was picked up before the issue of the results and I still don't know what the problem was.

trinity Guildhall results usually come out within 2 weeks of the exam date, often faster for private centres.

Islandofsodor is quite right - the pass is what people want, nobody is interested in the fails - mainly because some teachers routinely put students in before they are ready. The accompanists comments are often valid, but sometimes they do miss little things. Let her know the news now so she can get used to it, and then get the report and if you consider anything in it not quite right, contact them and query it. Examiners do sometimes make mistakes - but if their marks and comments confirm each other, then as said - you normally have to accept that in this case, something just went astray. I failed my grade 4 cello, (I can just about remember) and I've always been a lazy reader, having a really good musical memory - and the examiner suggested I play the composers version rather than my own version. I was convinced I was note for note perfect, but I wasn't.

I also wonder how experienced the teacher is? Sometimes teachers have more experience of the lower grades when staring out, and there may be something that wasn't done quite right, or an aspect whcih had been practiced incorrectly. If I was the teacher and I was concerned about a lot of my results, i would also look at what I had done as well.

I have had experience of Grade 6-8 marks being much lower than the earlier grades and I have always insisted that they spend an extra term on exams at this level. Certainly at the age of 13 when the voice is changing so much in both girls and boys. Sometimes the control isn't what it was. My DD had always got distinction for Grade 1-5 and then a pass for Grade 6 so now we only do a grade a year to make certain that everything is prepared and the voice knows what it is doing too. In singing because you have to know the words and the music and off by heart you need to have that known months in advance so that you can then work on the technical aspect of the grades too. Our preference has always been for the ABRSM in Grades 6-8 as the repertoire and the marking criteria appears to fit best for young developing voices. I hope your DD is OK and picks herself up from her fall. I would always say only enter your child for an exam if they are ready to take the exam by the closing date for entires. I would also check with the accompanist and ask them to talk you through the exam and any areas they think may not have been as strong as they could be on the day and then compare that to the mark sheet when you get it.

13 is quite a young age to take grade 6 singing but if all your teachers pupils have got lower marks than expected the teacher should consider contacting the board unless it becomes very obvious if there is an issue - as already said, was everything prepared by the teacher for the exam. It is also quite challenging to do both grade 5 and grade 6 in one session - not impossible though!

Good luck in trying to get to the bottom but also help your DD to move on from this. Also consider changing to ABRSM exams for the higher grades, making sure your DD takes her ABRSM Grade 5 Theory. This will stand her in good stead if she wants to go to Uni to do Music.

Heather
aka Taximom

Thank-you everyone for your messages. I have broken the news and it has not gone down well. I have now got the mark sheet and the examiner seems to be very hot on vocal support and dynamics and as some of you have said I think that the expectation are much higher at this level. The examiner also comments on a young voice and that she thinks there needs to be more security in the voice and the control of the upper register. Our teacher is very experienced at teaching the higher grades and in fact teaches at one of the London Music Colleges. Maybe I am to blame in a way because I did suggest she was entered for the exam as she knew the pieces and the teacher wasn't so sure. Even so she thinks that the examiner was harsh generally although all her older candidates she had 3 18 year olds doing grade 8 and they all got distinction as did the 16 year old doing grade 6 so maybe there is a moral to that tale with pushing singing exams too much. I think maybe I have learnt a lesson, listen to the teacher and wait as there is always time. I was talking to another parent whilst waiting for my youngest DD to finish her lesson and her daughter was accepted and offered scholarships by three London Colleges and RNCM as well as a choral scholarship to Cambridge and she only took her Grade 8 aged 18 but as always got distinctions so I think I have learnt from that. She said it is much better if you can present these institutions with a set of distinction only certificates. I hope that my DD will forgive me.

From what you say with regards to the singing exam I think it sounds like she wasn't technically ready for that Grade.

Around your dd's age a girls voice starts to change in the same was as a boys does although not that drastic. Girls can lose some of the top of their range and become breathy in tone and the voice a little bit unreliable, not though any fault of thiers just the way their larynx is developing and growing. Dh did a lot of research into this a while back.

If the techer is used to preparing older students for the higher grades these issues won;t have necessarily surfaced before.

I hope your dd keeps singing, tell her she needs to get through this period of change and it is just the same type of thing as a boys voice breaking.

musicmummy wrote:Sorry Bruno 2 my daughter is 13. Is this too young to be taking Grade 6 singing? I have been told something about the voice needing to mature.

Sorry not to sure about Trinity Exams, but I know alot of kids drop out of ABRSM after Grade 5 and go onto the Trinity exams (no theory involved) as with the ABRSM they cant take Grade 6 until they have completed Grade 5 theory. My dd is also 13 and is working through her theory. I would thing the norm to be taken Grade 6 would be around 15, and probably the same for Trinity, but Im no expert, every child is different.

A singing teacher colleague of mine mentioned that singing has a big drawback compared to playing an instrument. Beginners start on quite cheap instruments and then if the parenst have deep pockets you can buy a better instrument that may be easier to play, produce a better tone, and inspire you to play better. You have a voice, it improves with practice, but it gets tired, is never the same two days running, changes on a daily basis and is very easy to damage. Just look how difficult it's been for the pop singers to suddenly switch to using their voice as an instrument. It's good she's taken it well. It sounds like you have a decent teacher, so just let it flow. I'm not sure the examiner was harsh - the comments were perhaps appropriate to the grade, and not her age. Grade 6 is tough, so she gets tough comments - they can't dilute their language to cope with age - so if you get put in for the tougher exams, you get honest, and usually useful comment - it's just a bit hard for somebody so young - especially when at school, they rarely get honest comment. The work I get sent to verify covers the age range 14 to about 30, and the colleges are mega honest, "simply dreadful, rubbish, weak" and I even had 'crap!' once - while the very same qualification for a 14 year old might be "I know you can do so much better Jayne, perhaps you were a little hurried, would you like to re-write it and hand it in again".