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I thought I'd start a new topic (away from the agency application threads ) about the difficulty of making an impact in auditions and also the dilemma faced by those doing the auditioning when asked for feedback.

I've done quite a lot of auditions for different things and I've also auditioned a few people and watched many more auditions at various times.

I think the unpredictable nature of it all is really hard to come to terms with and our desire to know why we were not successful can at times be counter-productive.

If you are auditioning for drama school (and I'm guessing that auditioning for an agency will have some similarities), then the auditioner will be looking for potential and someone who fits in to the mix of others they are considering. You can do nothing at all about the latter...

There will be some people that just shine, that have something about them that makes the auditioner sit up in his/her seat and think "wow, that's really interesting". It is possible to see this spark within seconds. Others might not be quite so remarkable, but there will be some kick or quirk that an auditioner feels is worth exploring - and that will take longer to do. There might be others who are solidly and dependably good. For these people, it can just be chance as to whether their particular brand of solid and dependable is something the auditioner thinks will be a good fit in the company/school/agency... and chance is such a hard thing to accept or make sense of.

When you audition for parts, it's even more unpredictable! You can do a brilliant audition but someone else will just be "more right" than you. There are so many reasons not to choose you and many of them won't be within your control at all.

Feedback is really hard to give (as well as hard to receive sometimes!). Sometimes the truth is that you weren't very good, or that nerves overcame you. You might know this anyway, but hearing it is still very hard. Sometimes the person will try to dress the feedback up a bit and make it a bit kinder - and that can be confusing. Someone asked me for feedback from an audition and I found myself saying "you seemed to lack confidence, and I thought perhaps nerves got to you", whereas I actually thought she was rather rude and very wooden (though nerves might have had something to do with both these things). Sometimes (and I do think this is often the case) the auditioner doesn't have time to give you detailed feedback and so gives something entirely useless "just not quite right this time" - from which you can learn nothing at all. It doesn't even mean that they thought you were good, or in the running, because I'd be prepared to bet they give the same vague feedback to everyone! Occasionally you will get someone who will bother to give you more detailed feedback - but this can lead to endless agonising and you may not be satisfied even then. In my experience, more detailed feedback will often produce the urge to ask "what exactly do you mean by...."? - and of course CDs/Directors don't have time to discuss or clarify their feedback because they have a job to get on with!

The best way to get feedback I think, is from someone you trust, who knows your acting well - who can advise you and teach you and help you on your acting journey, with occasional help from an outside eye. In other words, feedback about your acting skills, not about a particular audition. I think that this is sort of thing that can help you to do better in future auditions (though you still may not get the job). I think audition practice is a good idea - to see whether you have some bad habits and to get you used to the bits of auditioning that don't have much to do with your acting skills.

Another problem with feedback is that if it deals with something technical (which is more likely for dancers and singers probably), then, although it can be very useful to highlight a skill area you can work on, it ignores the fact that is NOT someone with the best skill level that always gets the job. It's not like being a 100m runner, where the winner is the one who reaches the line first. How often have you watched someone with fantastic technique who leaves you unmoved, or someone who sings a song less than perfectly but who moves you to tears?

The other obvious problem with feedback is that one man's meat is another man's poison. You might "fix" a problem that someone else might regard as something wonderfully unique about you.

The other way to get feedback is indirectly : if you have been called in by a Casting Director and didn't get the job, and then that CD calls you in again it is a fair indication that they thought you did a good job last time. That should give you confidence. Also being pencilled or short-listed for a job (however frustrating it is not getting it) is very good feedback...

Anyone else have any views on this?

Wow pg so much useful stuff there! I agree that rejection that is sometimes hard, when you are not given a reason for it. Its tempting to want to learn from an audition I think, although audition practice is good, I don't think you can learn much esles from them. I know my DD got frustrated with this when auditioning for drama school. She wanted someone to be able to tell her a problem so she could "fix" it. When she re-auditioned her second time round, she had not really changed anything, in fact was acting/singing/dancing less because she was in full time work not college. However, she then got offered places on 3 good courses . She didn't think her auditiomns were signifacantly better at those places than others either. You are right about someimes being accepted/rejected on the basis of others who you will work/train with as well, and that is something that is out of your hands.

Thanks as always for your insight

Excellent advice, I always tell my children to be who they are - they are wonderful individuals in their own right! A friend of mine put's it into perspective by saying sometimes the shoe's just don't match the dress, even though they are beautiful shoes. Thanks pg, I shall let the children read your advice x

Thanks for that pg. When it comes to castings or audiitions it seems to me quite hard to be waiting for the phone to ring. Ds has done auditions that he has felt gone really well, and had call backs, and then the agent has said they really loved him..... and then nothing, until you read about the person that got cast instead! Of course sometimes it is you, which is great, but its so unpredictable and random. I wonder if there is any tips on remaining positive for the next time. It seems it is not acceptable to keep phoning agents to see how things went. I think it can be harder for young people, who are not trained or hardened to the business.(Not to mention mums!)

Excellent advice PG as alway - bad feedback or incorrectly understood feedback sometimes can destroy a persons ambition and thats not useful. My dd only did local shows and festival and training as a teenager as her focus was more on being the best adult performer she could be and we could not commit our time to her for professional auditions etc - however very often people like adjudicators or directors have commented to us that she has that certain something you cant teach when auditioning for a place at drama school this year she did 5 auditions and she was recalled at all 5 and offered two places and poss 3 if she had continued her auditions with that school ... obviously she and us were chuffed to pieces and perhaps it was that certain something that attracted the panel enough to recall .. What I do know is that dd heard and watched many talented in her opinion people that did not go through to recall . My friends daughter did not gain any places at drama school for what ever reason but has worked continuously as a singer dancer entertainer for 3 years now she did not let not being right put her off and rightly so.

And finally my non performing daughter has been going to interviews since graduating where it feels more like an audition 100 in the morning for 10 interviews later in the afternoon for a couple of vacancies I think its a shame she had not had auditioning experience in her younger days as that would really have helped her deal with set backs and disappointment involved in just getting a first step on to the career ladder nowadays.

Very, very well done to your dd Songbird. Which school is she going to? She obviously made the right kind of impact!
As you so rightly point out though, there is more than one way to make progress and succeed in the profession and drama school is just one possible step on the way.
I worry more and more though for those young people setting out on this path. Wages in the sector are being driven down and down and the idea that one has to work for nothing is becoming more and more prevalent. Good luck to all our young performers , they will need all of their skill and determination to stick with it.

PG- thank you for all the posts as you always have lots of great advice . This year my dd and ds have regularly got down into the last two for several tv series and films. This has been a huge achievement even though they haven't got the parts as it is great for experience and also shows that they are getting more used to the whole process. Over the few years that they have been doing this they have had lots of successes but also lots of nos. I agree it does help kids cope with interview situations. Feedback is something that lots of people look for especially when first starting out. However, my kids now prefer to just go in, do the audition and wait and see as they have realised that often it has nothing to do with your performance on the day but whether you look right for the part being considered. Also as I have said before many times my kids are tall (ds over 6ft at 14 and dd well over 5ft at 11) and so child parts are a problem as in my son's case he is often taller than the adult male actors. Both of my kids would rather not get a part than get one than wasn't quite right for them and the casting director usually has a good idea of exactly what their client wants.

Well Done to Songbird's dd.