Making the right decision at YR8?????

[dodgepot]

Excuse me if I end up rambling
My dd is bright and could sit the local Grammar School entrance exams that are coming up in October. However (and this is the tricky bit I am struggling with) whilst she is bright she is not the brightest and achieves currently without any sense of focus or desire to do well (not good for a Grammar School child!). She would prrobably be mid - low in her class if she were successful. She dropped from top to second set in her maths class last year and absolutely flourished with less pressure (although they are putting her back up this year). Grammar school would undoubtedly be very focused on academic success and less so on her passion for Drama, Dance, Singing etc I am also sure they would not be supportive (although I haven't asked) of her attending castings etc.

So my dilemma is this..... do I take the realistic view that her career choice now is perhaps not the one she will end up with and encourage her to up her academic game at Grammar to be the very best she can be in a more academic path or do we go ahead with local comprehensive where she would be considered amongst the brightest, that supports the Arts more wholeheartedly and where her academic achievements will not come at the expense of following her dream?

Do you get what I'm saying? I'm not sure I do anymore

[paulears]

Sure - we understand. We all want the best for our family and want them to have, perhaps, possibilities we didn't have ourselves. The key feature is that you mentioned that when the pressure came off, she flourished - and presumably became happier? At 13 - university education is a long way off, and frankly, if things continue as they are, academic excellence is no longer a pre-requesite for a uni place and a degree. At 13 she won't really have a clue as to career paths. Even those that think they do, frequently end up doing very different things.

All schools take great care in this age of league tables to match ability to courses. In my own area, we don't have any grammar schools at all - we've been comprehensive since 1975, and access to uni doesn't seem a problem. Of course, the outside impression is that grammar school education is better, but the reality is that even at private selective schools, there are still rough people, and these are the main problem. Grammars and private schools do have undesirables, but usually can stream them into classes away from the 'nice' ones.

In your case, at 13, I'd choose the option that will make her life the happiest. 5 years of being bottom of the class, and having to struggle to keep up, can be far more damaging, than being in a lower pressure environment. When she's 16, she will have a better idea and can do 6th form or college, when she's better able to know what she wants.

I've always held the view that anyone can get a C at GCSE if they put the effort in, and complete the work, and do what the teachers want. If the subject is too hard - like maths often is, then the C is achievable and then that's the time to say no more! Do the 16+ stuff on subjects they can do really well in - but that may mean leaving and going somewhere else rather than staying in 6th form. Let her try the learning styles tests we've spoken about before, on the net and determine how best she learns - then it may make a bit more sense.

The really good thing nowadays is that education doesn't have to suddenly finish - loads of people are going to uni later on, after a bit of work, and this is no longer important at all. If people do uni later, they routinely get better degrees.

My two boys were never in the top sets, and it was pretty obvious to me that university was never going to be for them. My eldest tried a few jobs where he found out what real work was, and now has a family and a nice job. He still has no interest in more education and that's fine with me. The youngest is self-employed at 21, he is happy touring - as a stage manager, or as in recently as a professional actor doing Shakespeare. No degree and modest college achievement. He's (touch wood) never been short of work and the lack of a degree has made not one jot of difference. I'm an ex-college lecturer and collected qualifications of all types, so while it would have been nice to see my sons at uni, it hasn't worried me at all.

13 to 18 is a critical time in their development - especially if it's likely they want to work in our industry - 5 happy years looks much more attractive than 5 miserable ones!

[Fruitcake]

Well said, Paulears!

We still have local Grammar Schools, but my DS refused to sit the entrance exam (although he had a very good chance of passing) as, having visited the school, he said it just didn't feel right for him.

During his secondary years he attended 2 different local comp schools, and was also home educated for a year. During those critical years his career choice did change out of the blue, so I agree with Paulears when he says that at that age career choices can change more than once.

I would say that you should go with your heart and let her go where you and she feel she will be the happiest and will thrive. If she is not particularly interested in academia, then perhaps the local comp would be a better option. To be honest, these days there is no difference between what pupils can achieve in any type of school, but there is more pressure and focus on the academic side of things at a Grammar School.

I was gutted when DS didn't want to go to Grammar School, but, on reflection, it was definitely the best decision for him, and he is now off to College to study Music, so he has achieved his goal quite happily without it.

My motto has always been..............go with your heart. You will know, deep down, what feels right for your DD.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

[riverdancefan]

I agree with both the above very wise posts

My DS is grammar level in all subjects but after sitting and thinking hard and discussing with him, we knew the 11+ was not the right path for him. There is so much pressure to sit that blasted exam in this area..I have my own opinions on that
The nearest grammars are single sex, he would LOATHE being in an all-male environment, no arts to speak of, sport sport sport and maths all the way.
Instead we were lucky enough for him to get into an excellent school out of the catchment area, which he had to audition for on a performing arts entry , they take 20 promising students either in sports, music or other performing arts. It is an outstanding school.

Your child will do where wherever they go I am sure of it, but as mentioned before, they thrive in the right environment for them.

[pollypickles]

I have 4 DD so have had a lot of experience regarding decision making and school choices. The best advice that I can give is to select a school that is right for each individual child. My eldest is currently at grammar school but she should never really have gone as she has struggled and I believe has not done as well as she may have done had she gone to a comprehensive. The pressure is immense and this has not suited her well. DD's number 2 and 4 are both academic so one flourishes at grammar and the 4th one will almost definitely do well there in the future (just going into year 5). DD number 3 refused to sit kent test so is going to a comprehensive that has performing arts status and so they will support her love of performing. The hardest thing as a parent is not to listen to other parents advice but to go with gut instincts. I think if you have a feeling about your child that one school is not right then you are probably correct about your assumptions. Good luck in your quest, being a parent is never easy!!!!

[wildgingerthing]

If this helps, I was at private school in yrs 7 and 8 and found the work load very hard, so I left to go to the local state school so I could dedicate more time to pursuing my artistic interests, and now I've just finished my gcses, I got all As and A*s - even though the teachers failed to finish the courses and I had to teach myself at least a third of each subject! I did much better than my old classmates at private school, which works you unnecessarily hard clearly, just because it's a competitive results school. It really is possible to flourish academically at a mediocre school - just make sure you've got the best revision books, and are willing to put in some work outside of class - I would recommend this sort of decision if you are a strong visual learner!
Even with subjects you'd assume you had to be taught - like science where you "learn from experiments" (it's easier to learn from diagrams I found!) - I actually despised science passionately in yrs 7 and 8 (it just didn't make sense!) but once I used the right books to study from I found I loved it, and in fact got 100% in my Physics gcse exam! Miraculous!
Just goes to show a healthy mindset with the right support, not the best school, is the key to the best grades!

[dodgepot]

Thank you so much for the wise words and support.
I think I know deep down that I don't want either of us to go down the Grammar route but felt that I was doing her a disservice if I didn't encourage her to do so.

We have decided to visit all the options available to us and then decide using gut and heart with a little less brain.
Thanks again it's so appreciated

[livininabox]

Hi There
I'm no expert on this as both my DDs at comp's but i do have a good friend whose son is at the local grammar. They are very supportive of him attending auditions etc and as the classes are much smaller he gets enough individual attention to quickly catch up.Lots of state schools are stubborn when it comes to requesting time off as theyre judged by statistics & government targets etc. Grammars dont feel that sort of pressure do they? Yes theyre incredibly academic but that doesnt mean they cant support those with other aims too. Good luck with your decision...

[SighNoMore27]

Just wanted to share my experience here, as it's something I feel quite strongly about:

Without wanting to seem big-headed, I've always kind of 'got' academic work and never particularly struggled with it. I have just finished 5 years at a local comp, that wasn't even what you'd call mediocre (it came out of special measures only last year and is one of the worst in the city), and came out of with majority A*s and the rest As. While I'm sure it's entirely likely that I would have done better had I been at the grammar school in the city, what I have always found is that being at a school where you are as you say "considered one of the brightest", you are therefore loved by the teachers, which is incredibly useful all ways round- they are keen to offer you help (and you feel more confident asking for it), they get to know you and like you more and so really want you to do well etc. I have always got on fantastically with my teachers, as a result of being being part of a much smaller group of 'hard working/able' students than there would've been had I gone to the grammar school, and I have no doubt that this has helped me hugely- not just academically, but in terms of confidence boosting and so on.

A local comp also has the advantage (as I see it) of being made up of lots of different types of people- there are those who are reasonably well off, who mostly want to do well at school, but then there are also those who are not, and don't. While that may seem like a bad thing (and at times it can be indeed be trying!), what I've really felt being at my school is that I am much more equipped to deal with the real world. It's taught me how to get on with people who I wouldn't ordinarily befriend, who are perhaps a bit 'rougher', and also the key skill of not judging a book by its cover. I've really come to believe that school is not just about academic education, but preparation for the real world, where not everyone has been privileged enough to go to private school or live in the nice parts of town- something that I can now appreciate, and am equipped to deal with.

But of course, that's just my opinion and, as everyone else has said, it is down to the individual after all!

Sorry about the rant- but after 5 years of telling people what school I go to and them looking at me as though I might blow up at any moment, and clearly thinking that my parents didn't care about me, I really wanted to sing its praises!
Good luck choosing- I'm sure you dd will do well whichever route you take

[Welsh Mum]

Hi There
I'm no expert on this as both my DDs at comp's but i do have a good friend whose son is at the local grammar. They are very supportive of him attending auditions etc and as the classes are much smaller he gets enough individual attention to quickly catch up.Lots of state schools are stubborn when it comes to requesting time off as theyre judged by statistics & government targets etc. Grammars dont feel that sort of pressure do they? Yes theyre incredibly academic but that doesnt mean they cant support those with other aims too. Good luck with your decision...

I'm confused. We don't have grammar schools in Wales, but aren't they state schools as well? I thought only indpendent/public schools weren't state schools.

[paulears]

Many local authorities phased out grammar schools with their entry requirements totally, but others kept going because they worked and they got left alone. Grammar schools are still state schools, but just limit entry, where comps are for everyone. Sometimes it's a socio-economic thing. A very large area of private housing in an expensive area with a grammar in the middle sits at one end of a town, while the other end with affordable housing has a comp - and it does work. There's a bit of cross connection. In my own area, despite having 3 high schools (comps) the catchment areas were really distorted so that each one has the same social mix. In my own case, my sons were supposed to go 1 mile past the school almost next door, to the next one along, to maintain this balance - we appealed and they got into the one close to us. That's how daft it can be. All the kids who go to the 13-18 independent fee paying school get on a train every day, because it's 30 miles away - the only one! hence in my area, all schools are similar - although one gets a glowing Ofsted, once a middle grade and the other is in special measures. 4 years ago it was reversed!

Isn't it funny how in education, 'satisfactory' really isn't!

[Pearl]

My dd took and passed the 11+ and is now going into year 8.

Firstly I think you need to look at each individual grammar school. When we looked round at our two choices of grammar my dd was touring with chitty and was missing every other week off school. One of the heads was absolutely horrified at the amount of time she was having off school ( eventhough she was being tutored ) but the other thought it was a fantastic opportunity.

Needless to say there was no decision to be made and dd has since toured with SOM and has just finished in Wizard of Oz. The school have not had a problem with her missing school and have just asked that we keep them up to date with whats going on.

Yes the work load is hard but shes managing to keep on top of it. Shes gone from been the top of the class at junior school to more or less average at grammar and seems ok with that.

She is adamant that she will leave at 16 and go off to vocational college but at least she has had the best schooling she could and who knows she may change her mind but I doubt it!!!

[beanie-bean]

Hmmm Tough decision to make. My dd is very bright but like your dd she isn't the brightest. We steered clear of the 11+ because we didn't believe she would feel she would thrive at a gramma school. She goes to a local 'good' school and has done exceptionlly well. She's been noticed and her confidence has soared, this has made her feel good about herself and she's happy which has had a positive effect on her work. Would she have been noticed in grammar school? I don't think so. Also, I don't know how much dancing and drama your dd does but sometimes it seems like my dd is either doing homework or at a dancing class. She hardly spends time with friends as it is. I'm sure she would have even more homework if she had gone to grammar school. But hey, this is about your dd. Perhaps take her to a few schools and see what their views are on your dd's passion. I know that some grammar schools can be very supportive of their pupils and I'm sure you'll make the right choice for your dd whever she goes. Good Luckxx

[cupcakephoebz]

I know this is a really old thread but for other people and future reference this is my experience. I go to a private school (one of the top ten in the country) and although I never went to state school most of my friends did and they have all said how much more they enjoy the private schooling methods. Yes it is a high pressure environment but everyone is extremely supportive and if you need help or are feeling down everyone immediately tries to help you. And I get less homework than people at state school.

Cupcakephoebz x

P.s. my school is extremely supportive of the arts it even just got a new theatre built and it offers private last minute coaching

[Winter8799]

Hello, sorry to resurrect such an old thread again, but I thought I should offer a contrasting experience, if people come across this thread. I am in year ten (gcse's!) at a very good grammar school in my area, having gone to a private school at primary school. Whilst in my area the grammar school is better, I appreciate this differs with every situation. What I would say is that in my experience every school is different and it's less about whether the school is a grammar school or a private school, and more about the school somewhere you'll potentially spend five years learning. It's always worth looking round schools, and when I looked around schools I found it really helpful to talk to the teachers and students at the open day. Don't judge a book by it's cover, don't judge a school by it's, um, status (right term). All schools vary, and it's really important to find an environment that you are comfortable in. For example, my school has pretty bad pastoral care, but they support me when I have rehearsals or am in shows, and academically stretches me.
I'm sure whatever decision you make will be the right one, and I hope this helps