From a casting director

[Nicola]

We were at an really interesting Q&A session with a casting director last night at our local theatre, and I thought one of the statistics she quoted might be interesting to people on here:

She was recently casting a theatre production for "The glass menagerie" - for a 2-week run at our local theatre and at Equity minimum wage obviously. She received 2,000 submissions for the 4 roles!!!

She said her first chop was to take out everyone who hadn't had professional training (about half of the total number that applied) - a tool she says she always used when dealing with theatre, because she prefers people who've had training - firstly because they deserve the break and secondly because they're more up the demands of performing night after night.

She then chopped people who hadn't been to a conference drama school (and doesn't consider people with university acting courses either), and then used the very specific casting notes written by the playwright to cull people who didn't resemble the character physically.

Of the original 2,000, only 24 got a casting from the long-list she drew up for the director. And of those, 4 were cast.

There are 2 post-scripts to this story though:

Firstly when asked "what made those 4 stand out initially", we were told "well, I'd worked with 3 of them before, so I was already familiar with their work". Hmmmmm, so in effect although 2,000 applied, 75% of the parts went to people she could have called up the day the casting notice went out!!!

Secondly, 2 of the roles went to students from Bristol Old Vic drama school - which is where the CD herself went. She acknowledged that it sounded nepotistic but explained that with such a ridiculous amount applying, there's no option but to use arbitrary culling tactics to get down to a more sensible number, and she couldn't help but look more closely at students from her own alma mater. To be fair these 2 were actually incredibly good, but of course that's not to say others wouldn't have been.

..and I won't even START on how "down" she was on the industry in general and the employment prospects for most graduate actors. It made for very depressing listening!!

Very interesting to get an insight into the casting process though - and her candour was refreshing!

[sapphire]

Firstly when asked "what made those 4 stand out initially", we were told "well, I'd worked with 3 of them before, so I was already familiar with their work". Hmmmmm, so in effect although 2,000 applied, 75% of the parts went to people she could have called up the day the casting notice went out!!!

That has certainly been DD's experience with castings to date

Thanks for taking the time to post this although it does make for rather depressing reading ... DD is in the process of applying for drama schools but I do wonder if she would be better just applying to study history which is what her school are very keen for her to do

[Nicola]

Exactly Sapphire - the point I think she ideally wanted us all to take on board was "do a proper degree first, followed by a 2 year post grad course", then WHEN you don't become the next Judy Dench, at least you've got something to fall back on!!

Problem is, 3 years must seem such a long time to wait to do something you love when it feels like it's at the tip of your fingers and "everyone else" is getting started straight out of school.

Luckily DD's only 13, so we've got 4 years for the industry to totally transform before she has to make a decision!!

[sapphire]

In an ideal world that's what DD would do - but is that a realistic option with the increased fees??? So confusing

[tikka]

Interesting, thanks.

Ds is yr 12 and just started a 2 yr Acting BTEC. He could have done A levels in maths, physics, chemistry - but chose with his heart, not his head!

Last weekend we went to our local University's Open day to visit the drama department - their degree is 50% actng and 50% theory. When asked about auditions etc for places they said they do not audition, or even interview! Admission is soley on UCAS points. When asked which subjects they preferred they said they didn't care, any would do!

I was a bit surprised that they didn't even interview, they seemed to think that with their teaching anyone with UCAS points could succeed in a Drama Degree.

I'm thinking maybe i should have worked harder to have encouraged him to the the A levels, (then at least he would have qualifications with a bit more buying power than a Drama BTEC) and waited a bit longer before deciding which Degree course he might do. have I allowed him to make the wrong choices ?

This Saturday we are going to another local uni's open day. This time I know admission is by audition only, and they are not interested in UCAS points....so that hasn't made me feel any better either!

its hard being a parent. ....it's going to be hard being an out of work drama student too LOL!

Tikka

[Nicola]

I do sympathise with you Tikka - another comment last night was from one of the organisers, who did drama at uni. He said at his very first lecture, the lecturer stood up and said "if there's anyone here that is doing this course because they want to be an actor.....they have made entirely the wrong decision"!! Luckily, this chap hadn't - he explained that a drama degree at uni is more theoretical (as you say) and for people who want to do something drama-related but are not yet committed to acting as a career.

Sapphire - you're right of course, if you use the student loan for the first degree, you won't get any help with the 2 year course afterwards, will you?

[sapphire]

Nicola that's right - you would have to pay for the second course yourself and still have a huge debt from the first degree Although as an out of work actor you would not be earning enough to have to pay it back DD is determined to try and get into drama school first and then go down the conventional degree route after a gap year or two if that doesn't work out. So the pressure is on to get good grades in her A levels so she always has those to fall back on! A pretty good carrot I think

Tikka - DD has been on several open days for uni drama courses and was not impressed with any of them. Having visited LIPA recently, she is convinced it's an accredited drama school course for her or something completely different if that doesn't happen.

[sapphire]

the lecturer stood up and said "if there's anyone here that is doing this course because they want to be an actor.....they have made entirely the wrong decision"!!

The head of the drama department at Birmingham uni said exactly that same thing at the open day we went too! A friend's son recently graduated with a degree in Theatre Studies from Warwick and is now studying for an MA at Central. He said a lot of students dropped out form the course at Warwick during the first year because it was too theoretical

[Welsh Mum]

Exactly Sapphire - the point I think she ideally wanted us all to take on board was "do a proper degree first, followed by a 2 year post grad course", then WHEN you don't become the next Judy Dench, at least you've got something to fall back on!!

Problem is, 3 years must seem such a long time to wait to do something you love when it feels like it's at the tip of your fingers and "everyone else" is getting started straight out of school.

Luckily DD's only 13, so we've got 4 years for the industry to totally transform before she has to make a decision!!

How old was the CD? This route would be very difficult given the present cost of degrees, and their scheduled rise next year. When degrees were free/or around £1,000 then this would be good advice, but to go downthis route now would incur a minimum of "20,000 debt and from next year about £35,000. The to fund another qualification

My DD has gone the drama school route because she has never had any interest in doing anything else. She will still have a degree, and if she had to (eventually) she could teach drama, dance or singing. But she was not interested in "drama" but in acting, so a drama degree would have been pointless. Who knows how it will all work out for her? My eldest DD has however friends with very good degrees who are working in low pay jobs, so nothing is certain anyway.

[Nicola]

I was chatting to a graduate of Rose Bruford a couple of months ago, and when she was bemoaning lack of work and inability to even rent a car while she was on rep season because of her working status I said "well at least you have your degree - surely you can do lots of things with that", and she said "yes, but it's an acting degree, not a proper degree"!!!

I don't think she was intentionally putting all her hard work down, but emphasising that a degree from a drama school - not matter how prestigious isn't really terribly useful in the job market unless you want to act.

Don't get me wrong - I'm actually still keen for my DD to go the drama school route - it didn't put either of us off, but it did open my eyes a bit further than they already were as to the realities.

[Nicola]

oh, and of course it goes without saying that the CD in question has not been in drama school for a number of years, so yet point taken about the funding issue.

[tikka]

The Uni we looked at were selling Drama degrees as a desirable commodity in the work place by saying employers liked drama graduates because they were good at 'working with people' ...but he would say that

[tikka]

there have been some tv programmes on this week about getting employment and, as it seems virtually impossible to get a job, you may as well enjoy the degree course you do ....and if it leads to employment then that's a bonus LOL

[sapphire]

there have been some tv programmes on this week about getting employment and, as it seems virtually impossible to get a job, you may as well enjoy the degree course you do ....and if it leads to employment then that's a bonus LOL

That's certainly DD's take in it ...

[Welsh Mum]

there have been some tv programmes on this week about getting employment and, as it seems virtually impossible to get a job, you may as well enjoy the degree course you do ....and if it leads to employment then that's a bonus LOL

Totally agree. Of course you couldn't use an acting degree for some jobs - but thats true of lots of degrees. I do think that an acting degree does have some good transferrable skills in it, which along with good post 16 and post 18 qualifications could be used to good advantage on a cv.