Can an under-18 perform at an over-18 venue?

[Fruitcake]

I wonder if anyone can help me.

DS (16) has the chance of being taken on by a band, all of whom are aged 25+. Their only resevation with taking DS on is that they occasionally get offered gigs at over-18 venues (DS will be 17 by the time he starts gigging with them).

Does anyone know how the law stands? Is it ok for an under-18 to perform at an over-18 venue, so long as he remains part of the act and leaves as soon as he has finished performing?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[Irishdancer]

At Demons Never Die party after the primer Dionne Bromfield performed she was only 15 ds could not go as he was not 18 so there must be some law which allows it or she would not have been able to perform.

[Fruitcake]

Great, thanks for that Irishdancer! Sounds hopeful then!

[paulears]

Most under 18s policies are simply local venue rules. For example, visiting companies with any content not deemed suitable for under 18s is written into their contract and the venue simply apply it. The Children's Act, which treats theatres as prohibited places for any under 16 (essentially school people) doesn't apply once they've finished with compulsory education. The only possible complication is that the modern venue license is the same license that covers the bars and restaurants - so there can be alcohol based restrictions in place, but usually these are sensible and restrict an under 18 to certain more public areas. So really in most circumstances it's up to the venue. In my own, for example - we're very happy with 16+ as front of house, or backstage staff, or anywhere except the bars. The over 18 venue is simply a convenience for the venue, usually designed to protect their license from underage drinking issues. No law exists on this one, except the premises license. Somebody aged 15 cannot legally be employed to work, even with no pay, in a theatre, disco, catering kitchen and abattoirs! The catering kitchen one being frequently abused - washing up in a burger bar would be a catering kitchen - but living in the seaside, as I do shows this one being 'conveniently' forgotten about. We actually checked with the local council when we wanted to take on a 15 year old who had written in. They said no problem, but then a frantic phone call back to say they got it wrong and it was NOT possible at all!

If the band are happy with him - I suspect they won't even tell the venues, and it's up to you if he leaves immediately afterwards. Practically speaking, it's a trust issue. If the gigs are a long way away - it's going to be unrealistic to collect him at the end. If you trust your son, AND the band I'd let him do the entire musician thing. Two reasons really - gigging is hard work and hectic, and to find out if he is comfy with it - he needs to do the late night, hard work bit. Secondly - it's important to be a full member of the band, and having parents pick him up will be, for him - a bit limiting. One other reason is the er, social aspects. There are many advantages of being in a band at 16!

[Fruitcake]

Thanks paulears........sound advice, as always!

Doesn't sound as if it'll be a problem, then.

I know what you mean about the advantages of being in a band at 16 ............precisely the reasons I'm very wary - especially as this band have their own van and say they can transport him to and from gigs. Scary, but it's what he wants to do and I have to let go some time!

[paulears]

I think playing in a band, or performing are the kinds of things that actually do people good - and the earlier they try it for real - as in on their own, rather than with the mum/dad safety net, the more it helps them decide if it's something they want to do. When I was 16 I was doing my first professional work, and I can still remember it quite well - Caroline Quentin was a dancer in the show! I suspect the band will look after him fine. I can't remember which one, but one of the well known acts that came through our venue last year had a 16 year old drummer - who was looked after by all the girls. Didn't cause any problems.

[Fruitcake]

I totally agree, paulears, and am actually quite excited for him as all he wants to do is play live.

The band have a van so we won't be taking him to and from gigs, either, so he will definitely be standing on his own 2 feet. I think he's gonna love it!!

[paulears]

Being very honest, the best thing that ever happened to me was being booed off stage. We had two bookings for a touring bit of theatre with music - comedy stuff. One New Years eve we did a 9pm show for the Masons, then moved ten miles and did the 11pm show at a big pub. They wanted the disco, not our stuff and being booed and heckled was simply horrible. However - I was 17 at the time, and nothing has ever been that bad again in 35 years!

[shortguy]

My DS is also in a band and they have experienced problems with over 18s venues. Not a problem now as they are all adults. They are often ID before they set up and have been told it doesnt matter if they are band or guests it is too risky to loose their licences. Once when the band were set up, ready to play and only one member was a month under 18 and still sent home.
They are having an absolute ball and love performing - your DS should have fun.

[kittykatty]

My 15 year old son is in a band and all the band members are under 18. They played at an over 18 gig recently a fact the didn't know until a lot of their friends turned up to watch them and got turned away. The pub said it was because they only had an over 18s bar license in the event room the gig was being held but the band where allowed to play as they were on stage not in the bar. I don't know if that was really what the law says. The sad thing for the band was they lost half their audience when all the friends went home

[shortguy]

I think the band playing is at the discretion of the venue - if a band member under 18 was caught buying alcohol it is a risk the venue may not want to take

[paulears]

Most music people hate the link between performing licences and alcohol! Very rarely are these kinds of rules in the licence, because of the exemptions involved with under 18s/alcohol/food. So if the venue like the band, they won't be too bothered - under 18s turning up is a different matter. Usually, the alcohol rules do have sensible exemptions - so family areas, or outside, may be detailed. The stage is actually probably not an exempted area specifically, but they'd just consider it as 'not' the bar area, which could be good enough. Although many under 18s do drink nowadays, the fines and consequences are usually enough to make sure venues do not encourage it - hence why many have over 21, or 25 rules of their own. Poorly paid bar staff who find themselves on the wrong end of a sizeable fine rarely break the rules - just not worth it. My dear old mum, in her seventies a while back helped a friend who owned an off-licence. In came a policeman with a young lad. Did you sell this lad this bottle of cider? Yes I did says mum - totally unaware cider was alcohol. She was cautioned and accepted the stern tick-off from the Inspector!

In this case - the venue turned away a fair bit of soft-drink sales, but rules were rules. They make amazing profits on soft drinks, more than the beer!

[Fruitcake]

Well, we're just waiting to hear whether they're going to risk it or not. They were really impressed with his drumming (said he was better than all the adults they'd heard!), but are just a little concerned about the age issue.

However, DS did reveal last night that he told them he'd done gigs in over-18 venues before and never had any problem! As he said - "You have to blag a bit, Mum, if you wanna make it these days!" That was after telling the guy on the phone, who was actually looking for a drummer aged 25+, not to judge him on his age before he'd heard him drum!

Not sure if I admire his guts, or am ashamed of his blagging.............bit of both, I think!