Qualifications to aim for

[Welsh Mum]

You can get into uni with BTECs I know lots who have done this and have studied a variety of subjects.

It s a misconception that only A levels will get you into university.

[Genevieve]

with reference to top Unis - they don't accept BTECs eg. Oxford, Cambridge, King's College, Edinburgh etc, all the Russell group ones..because they are not academic courses - and if you want to study drama at the best Unis, for example, at Warwick or Glasgow Universities, I know they didn't used to accept BTECs, I don't know if this is still the case.
For exam based University courses, often those with BTECs are required to meet other criteria for entry to universities , because BTECs are more practical based and the Unis need to know the students have the skills to cope with the demands of the course. Often courses require students to have BTECs in subjects related to the course of study - but it is all about the points at the end of the day , and GCSE grades are really important too.
For performing arts courses though its very different, BTECs are very beneficial, because of the practical side of the courses.
.

[Welsh Mum]

It is not true (and very misleading) to say the Russell Group unis do not take BTECs:

Exeter - "The University welcomes applications from appropriately qualified students offering a wide range of qualifications, including GCE A levels, IB, BTEC National Diploma, Advanced Diploma"

Birmingham - "Appropriate BTEC National or Higher National Qualifications achieved with merit and distinctions "

Cardiff - BTEC accepted for some courses.

Liverpool - "We consider a wide range of UK qualifications including,•BTEC Awards"

University College London - " UCL accepts a number of other UK qualificationsincluding BTEC National Diploma"

ALL of those above are Russell Group unis and quotes fron their websites. I personally know students who did BTEC who are at some of them!

Please dont be misled by sweeping statements. The fact is that there are dozens more very good unis who are not Russell Group - most of these accept BTEC, as do many of the RG ones. However, even within unis there is variation between acceptable qualifications. One thing is certain, you cannot generalise either about unis or courses. Of course BTEC is not suitable for all of them - but then for other courses BTEC is better than some A levels!!

[Genevieve]

and many more Unis could be listed too - as I said, I wasn't sure about RG Unis and BTECs as I've never researched it, only drama courses at top Unis for Livy2 - I'm used to talking in terms of A levels for entry to courses at Unis, not knocking BTECs .its a 'discussion' ! things change all the time - and I've mentioned some Unis that don't accept BTECs as prerequisites which isn't surprising because A Levels are designed differently to BTECs. But I would say that students on my ds's degree course who'd done BTECs found the 'exam based degree courses' at University level more difficult and struggled more than those who'd done A levels, because of the academic side required to study at degree level, their BTECs hadn't prepared them adequately
Livy2 , if your dd is doing A levels, I agree that English Lit is really good, and a language helpful, but not necessary, and Drama A Level while not necessary,is good preparation (but better to join Youth theatres outside of school), and Music A Level, if your dd wants Musical Theatre, but as pg said, its all about the audition at the end of the day (and dance training is needed for Musical Theatre), but applying via UCAS, a good personal statement will help, as schools could perhaps use it as a whittling down tool at audition stages,although I don't know what they use that information for (would love to know) ! And your dd should go to see as much different genres of theatre as possible if your dd wants to go on to take a performing arts course and the audition process.

[Welsh Mum]

Sorry wasn't having a go but there are so many misconceptions out there about BTEC did not want to add to them

I agree they are not a good preparation for some courses. But for a course like Acting (or Dance, MT) they are excellent and a far better approach than A levels. if you want to study Drama at uni then I dont think its as important, but for the practical acting courses they are very good. I think that the A level students soon get into the style of teaching on an acting courses, but for those who have done BTEC the transition is much easier. The way you learn for A levels is very different to that of a BTEC course, and while a levels prepare you well for an academic uni degree, BTEC similarly prepares you well for a vicational course.

Its difficult if you are undecided what to choose. It was easy for my DD as she was totally focussed on an acting course, wouldn't even contemplate applying for a uni course (she is very single minded ).

[Caroline A-C]

If there is any doubt as to what you want to do after school, then it would probably be best to go for A levels as I think they are still more recognised. My ds did a BTec in Performing Arts as he only wanted to go down this route. It is a great qualification but I think you are probably more limited should you change route and want to go down a more academic route. At the end of the day, I would go with your gut feeling.

[paulears]

It's really not supposed to be this difficult. If you wish to be a lawyer, or a doctor or a dentist or an architect - then although three of those require physical skills, there is a requirement for underpinning knowledge - which means academic study in the old fashioned sense. I'd not fancy a dentist who'd learnt by doing it! Lawyers need to study the law, and not just understand it, remember it.

If you wish to employ dancers, then the only feature you really are interested in is their dance ability. We don't care if they know ballet is Italian or French in origin, and we couldn't care less about the social and historic features of the era in which the dance style evolved. We don't need to know Bob Fosse's life story - it's all useful and fascinating stuff maybe, but the key question for getting work is can you dance better than the others at the audition.

A Levels are essential requirements for the Universities (Not just Russell Group) who need students able to cope with individual academic research and study. That is what A Levels were designed for. Indeed - with A Levels, the ones with 'studies' on the end were always viewed suspiciously and not deemed appropriate for some unit. Nothing has changed. Indeed - if we remember BTEC was originally designed for engineering and electronics it was really critical. Then this qualification widened to cover today's huge range.


If you wish to go to a university where the want and need 4 A levels, nothing less than a B - then it isn't going to be performing arts, is it?

If the uni decide that an Distinction star profile is what they need - it's not going to be a Physiotherapy BSc.

Everyone just tags things with the generic A or BTEC tags and for the last fifteen years, the unit have managed their intakes pretty well.

The key feature is avoiding qualification mismatches, where the subject for uni study is not matched to the qualification - whatever it is!

[dodgepot]

I always read to the end of a topic when Paulears is speaking

[Genevieve]

I always read everyone's posts ! they're all valued. It may seem as stating the obvious to some, but it can only be helpful giving detailed advice based on our own personal views and experiences of educational routes, like BTECs and A Levels, rather than just generalising on the subject of career routes.
I agree with Caroline A-C that taking A levels will offer more options for Uni if there's a change of mind, still leaving performing arts courses achievable too.

[GEORGIEROSE]

Yes unis certianly do accept Btec,my dd has just got a place at The Arden School Of Theatre,she was also offered other places at uni-she doesn't have math GCSE either.
Don't know about Oxford and Cambridge,have to be a genius to go there

[tikka]

Guess it depends on your strengths and possible career paths.

A levels tend to suit 'essay writers' and you need to be happy taking exams. BTECs are continuous assessment so you have to be happy knowing that all classwork, assignments and performances are assessed and having a bad day could reduce your overall grade in that particular unit , but no exams, and so far in one year of Ds's BTEC course there has only been 1 essay to write!

A levels keep your options open to the subjects you can take at uni, BTECs give you little uni choice in subject matter. To do an 'acting' degree (which is nothing like a drama degree) you don't always need to have studied 'acting' to a high level so long as you have the UCAS points they ask for, and you perform well at audition. So you could do A levels and lots of out of school acting stuff.

You could do A levels (or a BTEC), then a 2 year Foundation Degree in Acting or your chosen discipline, then apply to do a 3 year Degree at a top drama school. Sounds like a long journey but if you choose a maintained drama school (one that gives you a student loan) then the only year you would have to self fund would be the 1st year of the 3 yr degree. You can have a student loan for 4 years of study, and you only pay if off if you get a good job

Also kids change their minds. DS has always wanted to act, but has recently be attracted to film directing (due to an BTEC assignment!). Current plan is: finish 2nd year of acting BTEC, do 1 year of Techy BTEC, then 2 years of Foundation Acting Degree at the theatre 10 mins walk from home, then go off to do a 3 year BA, in acting or maybe even film making or maybe 3 years at a good drama school. Should be in debt to the student loan company for around £60k, and will need to find £9000 to pay for the first year of the BA.....or maybe he will get that lucky break in a big film!!!

Whatever you decide I wish you all lots of fun.

tikka

[tikka]

ps forgot to post useful link!

http://ncdt.co.uk/guidetotraining/

tikka

[Genevieve]

You could do A levels (or a BTEC), then a 2 year Foundation Degree in Acting or your chosen discipline, then apply to do a 3 year Degree at a top drama school. Sounds like a long journey but if you choose a maintained drama school (one that gives you a student loan) then the only year you would have to self fund would be the 1st year of the 3 yr degree. You can have a student loan for 4 years of study, and you only pay if off if you get a good job

why would you have to self fund for 1st year of 3 yr degree, - the whole BA is funded isn't it ??

Current plan is: finish 2nd year of acting BTEC, do 1 year of Techy BTEC, then 2 years of Foundation Acting Degree at the theatre 10 mins walk from home, then go off to do a 3 year BA, in acting or maybe even film making or maybe 3 years at a good drama school. Should be in debt to the student loan company for around £60k, and will need to find £9000 to pay for the first year of the BA.....or maybe he will get that lucky break in a big film!!!

sounds very tiring !!, but what a plan !!!
60k Wishing for that lucky break in a big film, wouldn't that be great

[tikka]

[quote="Genevievewrote 'why would you have to self fund for 1st year of 3 yr degree, - the whole BA is funded isn't it ??

sounds very tiring !!, but what a plan !!!

60k

You only get a loan for funding for one full degree , and for up to 4 years of study. The Foundation degree is a lower level qualification than the BS degree so they fund the FdA for 2 years, which leaves you will an allowance of 2 more years. You could then top up to a full BA in 1 year, or start a new 3 year BA. You only have 2 years of funding left and they will fund years 2 and 3 meaning you would have to pay the £9000 for the first year yourself.


Does sound tiring doesn't it, but he loves it all, and might as well be at uni learning something you love than on the dole looking for work The loans are only paid back out of your tax code at 9% of any income over £21k a year, and are written off after 30 years, so its doubtful if many peolple will ever pay them all back. Fortunately its calculated at simple interest, rather than compound!

tikka

[paulears]

Feel free to skip to the end, I don't get offended.

In most cases, you are public funded for two years 16-18, then 3 for uni. If you 'use up' your funding on the 2year foundation degree, then that's why only the first year of the next course would be covered. It's also why sometimes 'mature' learners discover they can get funding to return to college or uni after babies - if they didn't use it up originally.

finish 2nd year of acting BTEC, do 1 year of Techy BTEC, then 2 years of Foundation Acting Degree at the theatre 10 mins walk from home, then go off to do a 3 year BA, in acting or maybe even film making or maybe 3 years at a good drama school

This could also be a problem. The college may well not be able to access funding for the production BTEC (techy is a really dodgy word, by the way - many technical people will be quite insulted to be called techys - not all, but enough to matter) - even if they can fund it, it's an extra year off the higher education funding.

However - this education path leaves you aged at least 24, looking for your first job - well behind others. Well qualified - but as many performers have mentioned before - qualifications do not make jobs!

Most people who do foundation degrees over two years then do a top up to a BA - but usually in 18 months-ish. They don't start again and do 3 years. The first year of a BA is usually very, very basic - giving you skills needed for years 2 and 3. You will already have done that! Doing a Masters after the BA is fairly common - but usually indicates you just like study, rather than actually doing it.

Dancers need to be very careful about becoming eternal learners because their performance career is time limited. Somebody aged 24 going to the same auditions as the 21 year olds has to work much harder. Many performing arts graduates who become drama teachers do masters - but very oddly quite a few do a business management Masters - because they can be done on the job, and they help them get off the teachers pay scale onto management - which pays much, much better!