How many colleges should you visit the open day for?

[2dancersmum]

We also had a plan B, as did DD'd friends. My DD would have stayed at school to do A levels and continued her dance training locally. Some of her friends, who incidentally did not get in on the 3 year deiploma courses (level 6), went for the btech level 3 (equivalent to 3 A levels). These are 2 year courses, again by audition but free for 16-18 year olds. One went to Birmingham Ormiston, which was commutable for her (Birmingham's equivalent to Brit School) and another to a local college. They intend auditioning again at 18. I know there are also some private colleges out there that offer a course similar to the foundation courses. We saw several of them at Move It. A friend of DDs went to MADD in Nottingham on one of these courses and we considered one in Huntingdon, Cambridgeshire. Incidentally, katymac, you mention the teaching - Preston college has been highly reccommended to us for its course and its teaching.

[Katymac]

It looks like the level 6 diploma is only at a few colleges & none of them are in Norfolk

http://www.trinitycollege.co.uk/site/?id=494

Where can I study for this Qualification?


Arts Educational Schools London
Bird College – Dance & Theatre Performance
Cambridge Performing Arts
Guildford School of Acting
The Hammond School
Italia Conti Academy of Theatre Arts
Laine Theatre Arts
Leicester College of Performing Arts
Liverpool Theatre School
Millennium Performing Arts Limited
Mountview
Performers College
SLP College
Stella Mann College
Urdang Academy
WAC Performing Arts and Media College

[paulears]

The BTEC Level 3 is Further Education, aimed at 16-19 year olds, normally as a two year course. Is somebody aged 16 actually suitable for study at degree level? Some are, of course - but my own experience with the 16-20 year old group suggests that the vast majority are not really up to it - it's a HUGE step up from level 2 at school to Level 6 at uni/perf arts college. The talented dancers that can get in early to some of these places because their dance is really advanced may not be advanced in the other areas the courses hit. There's quite a bit of non-dance skills involved. They also encourage real work - but this may simply be unavailable to people under 18. I'm not sure if the younger ones must be commutable? I assume so, because living away from home could be dangerous in all sorts of ways, and at 16, as a dad, I'd be scared stiff!

I also don't know how funding works? The college funding is usually routed via the local county council - so I have no idea how a 16 year old would attract HE funding - because as they are under 18, how can they sign the student loan forms?

I may well be wrong, but I thought that places like Birds did the BTEC for their under 18s? Only putting them on the degree level programme once they reached 18?

[riverdancefan]

I thought there was no funding for these courses,that unless you were given a scholarship - you had to pay..am I wrong ?

[Katymac]

Every bit of advice I receive is contradictory and at odds with every other piece of advice

I am so confused by it all

[suesmith]

have that feeling too Katymac - the more I know the more confused I become!!

[paulears]

If a qualification is on the database, and is accredited then it should qualify for funding. Let's face it, that's how these places get by now. Running a qualification on the National Qualification Framework (Trinity's course is accredited) should mean that for people who have not used up their HE funding, they can treat it like any other university place. For those who love education and not working, it's also a stepping stone to the MA level - which has to be done somewhere else, but the Level 6 qualification is accepted as part of the course - cutting time off the next step up. A Level 3 BTEC, usually preceeds a degree level programme, but some people do a Level 4/5 BTEC HND - which can be topped up to a degree by around 18 months worth of extra study - basically doing the bits the very practical BTEC missed out - like research and the dissertation requirement.

The entire thing is very confusing, and each college has a slightly different system, so it's difficult to compare. People need to ask the right questions.

I don't actually see any contradictions here - but it's easy to be confused because we are talking about two very different National Diplomas - Trinity's is a degree level programme, intended for over 16s, and BTECs National Diploma is now 2/3 of 3 A Levels equivalent (as in worth 2). The Trinity qualification needs (as far as I know, a successful DaDA application. A degree, being 18+ can have the normal student loan (because they are old enough to sign for it!)

The Laine's Diploma is on the NQF, lasts three years and can be started at 16, if they think the students are up to it. Logically - this is the BIG step up, misses out the usual A Level/BTEC level 3 2 year period.

Doreen Bird offers a degree (3 years and 18+ only) and the Diploma - again Trinity's.

Conti's only offer the degree programme for 18+

I guess the real decision to make is determined by the kids themselves - can they make the jump from wrapped in help, guidance and advice to a more business like and stressful life at a busy 'grown up' college? They all offer the usual mentoring and guidance - but it's not a replacement for mum. My own experience of my 18+ students going to uni is that some simply cannot cope with being on their own and making their own decisions and being responsible for there own learning. Others thrive with the responsibility. I keep thinking about how so many are when they go to college at 16. They think they're street wise, but only in such a narrow field. They are sadly unprepared for even college life, where an assignment may be set, and never referred to again for siz weeks when the lecturer holds their hands out and asks for it. That night, six weeks work is squeezed into a pile of poo, that gets very poor results. The ones who when asked, hand over six real weeks worth of work and get the top grades are the ones who could have coped with the Level 6 qualification, away from home.

Having seen what comes out of Laines, Bird's and Conti's I know how hard the kids have worked, and I'm sure the same applies to the other names too - but most of these places are in big busy places - which the kids may be able to deal with - or not.

To be very honest, I think that if the kids cannot cope with the workload, and having to be away from home, then they'd be better having two extra years at home, then off to a degree at 18.

[puck]

Hope this might help clear up a few misconceptions although all our experience has been for pure dance courses so far but currently looking in MT for youngest dd atm.

Btec level 3 courses (extended diploma) are FURTHER EDUCATION equivilent to 3 A levels and last for 2 years from age 16-18. They are usually undertaken at local colleges and are free for under 19s. Child benefit is still paid for kids on this type of course.

level 6 diplomas are HIGHER EDUCATION and usually take 3 years and can be topped up to a full degree with an extra year usually done whilst working. These courses have to be paid for and are the ones that have dada funding. Each college will have a certain number of dada awards (never as many as places available) which they offer to those students they consider the best of the applicants. From 2013 dadas will be income-assessed so will still require a substantial parental contribution for most. In addition a few colleges do have their own scholarships but these are few and far between. Confusion often results from people referring to a dada award as a scholarship. It is this level of study that seems to be a bit of a grey area as child benefit stops because the course is classified as higher education but students are not eligible to apply for student loans (regardless of age). Some students start this level course at 16 whilst others may be 18 or older (esp MT). Entry is by audition. and academic requirements are often minimal.

Then there are the degree courses either at Uni or places like Central School of Ballet and Rambert. In the case of these latter two students can apply from age 16 and are eligible for student loans in the same way as University students with fees set at the same levels. Again entry is by audition. There are many 16 year olds in these schools who have to live away from such a young age often in privately rented accommodation although there are a few hostels which will take under 18s. Although these courses are predominately practically-based there are still written assignments and as Paulears says the level required is a considerable step-up from GCSEs.

[Katymac]

Sorry Paul, I didn't mean contradictions on here; each teacher/professional I speak to suggests something different

I get clarity and information from here - thank you to everyone

I'll get DD to read all this & see what she thinks

[islandofsodor]

My dh has taught at some and is still teaching at one of the colleges on the list. The level 6 diploma us definitely available for dancers aged 16 plus as a 3 year course. The majority of his students are aged 16-19 when they start though some join after they have done a a levels.

[islandofsodor]

The colleges HAVE to offer this course for students to get dada funding.

[Katymac]

islandofsodor would your DH like to get together with Paulears & tell me what to do with my DD as I am so far out of my comfort zone with this?

(wonders if I can abdicate responsibility & decision making like this?)

[islandofsodor]

Let her audition see how she gets on & whether she is offered funding but apply to a local FE college on a btec course as a back up would be my gut feeling. I seem to remember you saying she isn't really interested in academic a levels. If she goers for the btec then continue with her dance lessons alongside don't rely on the btec alone as standards are variable then try again for vocational college at 18.

[Welsh Mum]

My DD has quite a few friends who did BTEC in (excellent) local FE college, as well as outside dance classes and then to London colleges. Most graduated this year - they went to Bird, Urdang, Laban and Performers.

[paulears]

I concur 100% with islandofsodor. BTEC dance can be very variable in teacher competence. Some are ex-professional dancers who trained as teachers afterwards, others are BTEC trained dancers, who went to uni, then back to teaching with little or no professional experience.

The audition will be an eye opener. Either she'll be blown away and want to get there no matter how, or be a bit underwealmed. Very often, it's the 'feel' and the informal chats with their students that either supports or ruins the staff input. My guess will be that after each one, she'll have little difficulty imagining herself there.

The BTEC is an excellent backup - but there's little doubt the name places do give damn good training. I'd also suggest perhaps doing at least one of the 'B' names in the specialist list, because of the popularity of the top names. Too many auditions will also cost a huge amount of money to do..... which must also be a consideration.

If we could figure out how to do it, maybe a multi-way Skype type thing could be good - I'd guess we'd have trouble arranging it, but if others thought it useful, I'm up for it? or maybe some kind of facebook style text - where under supervision, the kids could ask questions live? It could work?