Not sure if the job is paid or not!?

[Rachel_M]

My dd has her first job modelling next week, which is not something either of us really know anything about, so I was wondering if a few more experienced people could share their knowledge!?

Basically she had a call from the agent to check availability, and then the next day an email with the call time/date, what to bring, and the location of the shoot. There was no phone call in between confirming that she actually had the job, so I was a bit confused as to whether she actually had been picked at first! But I think she was, as they even rescheduled the shoot for her when she was in ill with flu two weeks ago. Not sure how common that sort of thing is?

But the problem is, is that there has never been any mention of payment, which I found rather odd. I don't want to be really rude and call the agent asking up front what the pay is, and I'm wondering if there actually IS any pay! Are modelling jobs without payment usual?

Any advice would be very welcome, thank you!

[francescasmum]

I would imagine if it came through your agent it will be paid! Would they go to the effort for no commission.
Occasionally my dd's agent has been approached about unpaid work and she has passed the enquiry on asking us to deal directly them direct, therefore leaving the decision and organising to us.

[Flosmom]

I agree that your agent is unlikely to be sending your DD for an unpaid job. And you should be comfortable asking your agent about the commercial arrangements as that's an important part of their remit.So you can just drop them an mail to ask for confirmation of the terms. You may be pleasantly surprised.

Deb x

[Rachel_M]

Thank you Deb and francescasmum for your replies! I did think it wasn't very likely they would be sending her to unpaid job too, although the thing that made me wonder was the fact that the shoot is for a charity. Do you think that makes a difference? I'm slightly worried about coming across as completely clueless if I email them asking about payment!

[pg]

Hi Rachel_M

It's not you that's clueless

Your agent really ought to have told you properly what the deal was when the availability check was made. It is possible that it's an unpaid gig if it's for charity (it shouldn't be, but it might be). Your agent is definitely at fault here. An agent should always check with a client before submitting a client for unpaid work (unless you have already had this conversation and have agreed to be submitted for everything) and should check before accepting a job on your behalf that you are happy with the deal - whatever it is. It might well be paid, but either way you should know before being assumed to have accepted the job.

I guess the exception to this is when you have an established relationship with your agent and can be confident that you would never be submitted for anything that wasn't paid at industry standard rates. I know my agent will always check with me if something is low budget or has unusual conditions attached, so I can be confident that anything I'm booked for will be properly paid. It's not really difficult or time consuming for the agent to send you the original brief with the terms and conditions of the job. Perhaps it would be helpful to get used to asking for that at the availability check stage, if your agent doesn't automatically send it through?

You do need to speak to your agent about this and find out what the arrangement is. It is absolutely not unreasonable to do so. You need to know whether it is worth your while for your dd to go!

[begolina]

I like Flosmum idea of asking " the conditions of the terms". It does say politely that you would like to know the detaisl of the agreement which, I think, even if it is for charity, still is a commercial agreement. For instance, who pays the expenses? I don't think that an agent can do charity with other people money and time without asking first to the people involved. It is not your fault that you have to ask, the agent should have been clearer in first place. Sometime agents should really spend those extra two minutes to write an email with the information needed.

[begolina]

Can't believe it. pg we should do flick or flock. I was writing the same sort of answer at the same time as you. Very proud of myself (although your one is more precise, of course)

[pg]

Ha ha ha

My answers are never more precise! Well, they're certainly never CONcise. I just ramble on and on... and on...

Glad to see you agree though

[Rachel_M]

Okay, thank you for the advice everyone, I will send them an email to double check the conditions (thank you for that wording Flosmum! )

I didn't want to ask too many questions at the availability check stage because it was only the second one we've ever had! The first one the pay was mentioned during the first phone call so I just assumed they had forgotten to mention it and it would be detailed in the email later on. No such luck there of course!

Thank you for the helpful advice as always everyone

[pinky3]

Make sure you ask for confirmation of the 'terms' - not the conditions. Slightly different - just chinese whispers at play I think!

[jooles]

there are some unpaid modelling jobs!!! most high end editorial is unpaid believe it or not ....the model should feel privilidged to work with certain photographers and stylists it's all about collecting work for their portfolios and even the worlds top adult models do stuff for free and hope it leads to commercial or advertising work but if its child modelling for advertising purposes there should be a nice fee involved Well done and enjoy the experience x

[poohstix]

I agree your agent should have given you al this information when requesting availability. My son had an unpaid editorial shoot last Oct which was called a Test shoot, however the agency let me know this when checking availability and the photographer does regular test shoots and uses a lot of children from our agency. We got travel paid and a copy of the pictures ( prob about 80 +) and agency used them for his webpage, also got email today to say they've been used in a high end kids clothing magazine and they look great. So all in all it was well worth doing, but i'd still check with your agent the details for the shoot. Hope they enjoy the shoot whatever it is

[pg]

Hi poohstix

A bit off at a tangent but: shouldn't your agent be negotiating some kind of payment for that? Maybe they have and I'm leaping out of my seat for nothing!

Did you sign to say the photos could be used anywhere without any further payment?

This is where I think you (or more precisely your agent) needs to be really careful about unpaid work. I think most agents would negotiate at least a credit (name of model and who they were represented by) and preferably a payment. I'm sure the high end kids clothing magazine is gaining a commercial advantage from its use - as is the photographer. I think you are losing out there if there's no payment for ds!

[poohstix]

Hi pg,

Yes I see what your'e saying, we had only just signed with the agency so it was a good deal for us as we used the photos for his webpage (saving us £60), and they paid travel expenses so it gave him experience and saved us quite a bit of money. Iv'e checked the magazine and him and the agency did get a credit and it does look great so i'm happy with that. But yes you do need to be aware of what your signing up to, some unpaid jobs are worth doing for experience/ credit on cv or show reel. Agency did say the photographer would try and get them featured somewhere but it's been a while so forgot about them, it was a nice suprise to see him in a magazine

[pollypickles]

My dd did a shoot for a Childline video but we were told up front it was unpaid as was for charity. We did get expenses and dd got the credit on her portfolio, it was a good experience )