Musical Theatre BTEC vs A-Levels

[paulears]

I got a call from a school this week - their drama teacher was off - the yr 11s needed help on their mocks, but there would be some other groups too - so I went in. First class - Geography GCSE! Luckily, Tsunamis, tectonic plate movements and the Richter scale, by pure coincidence were things I did know about. If there was a BTEC in geography, which of course there isn't - it just wouldn't work. For geography, the kids at GCSE or A Level need knowledge, and to be fair a decent bit of science. So it fits properly. Many GCSE and A Level subjects have the word 'studies' in the title - and for years, even though an A Level, many unis considered them soft subjects, often referred to in private as pink and fluffy subjects. It's really because to a certain degree, they're subjective - and prone to poor examination. Much of what is taught at GCSE, is in my view, of very little use to anyone who wishes to have a career in the subject, but it does develop personalities and encourage experimentation. It doesn't teach kids to act, sing or dance.

Versatility is what employment needs. A good friend of mine can act, sing and dance - but after the usual crop of West End shows, he's now in the Commitments Musical, and needed to play an instrument. A year ago, he couldn't, but he spent a year learning, and then when he auditioned, his other skills got him the job.

In Great Yarmouth, the circus has a synchronised swimmer section. They discovered that it's easier to teach dancers to swim, than swimmers to dance!

If your kids have a learning style that (like most dancers) means they learn better and quicker by doing - then BTEC is great. If their learning style means they love research, reading and analysing, then A Levels might work better.

[2girlsmum]

Paulears, thank you so much for all this information, it's wonderful, it will certainly help my DD & I through her choices she will be making (she is current yr 10)

[nextinline]

I agree that it is most important that pupils enjoy what they are doing with one eye also on the job market (although the advice is always changing). My ds has opted to do A levels first but he is doing Performance Studies as one of them and loves all his subjects. He continues to train outside college as well. He is still undecided whether he will do a degree in something else first or go straight to drama school. Again this will depend on whether he gets offered a place where he wants to go. Funding is also a huge factor. Wishing everyone well with their individual choices. In the end with all the training in the world it seems to me it comes down to training, hard work compromise and a big dose of being in the right place at the right time.

[paulears]

I actually think the most prepared people for a career after uni could well be those that used their outside amdram and dance school activity to get into a performance HE place, simply using their Level 3 qualifications as a door key. The rather sad facts seem to suggest that what we're actually doing with the huge numbers of people training to perform, or support performance is create teachers! Since I started teaching Performing Arts in about 1996, HUGE numbers of perf arts, media and music college students became school and college teachers, not earning a living from it. The sad thing is that just in this last year, three I know very well have given up. One is thinking of giving up, and one has become a teaching assistant because she can't take the pressure. The ones that are doing best have the right kind of personality and they were NOT the most academically brilliant students, just hard working ones!


The one thing that I noticed in particular about dancers is that it is very common for dancers to be poor at maths. I don't know why, but the stats show their maths grades are poorer on average. Business skills are really important - they spend their careers managing (or more often, mismanaging) money. There seem to be less girls able to move into management when their physical side drops off. They're perfectly competent in many areas - but basic maths is a hold back. Believe it or not, the most common problem is a very common one when looking after petty cash - VAT. They don't understand percentages, and how they work. If you give them a receipt with say £149.99, and ask them to produce the price without VAT, and the VAT content - they can't do it. Customer services at Tesco and Asda are just as incompetent.

If choosing A Levels, Maths, English and a Science still work for life!

[riverdancefan]

I actually think the most prepared people for a career after uni could well be those that used their outside amdram and dance school activity to get into a performance HE place, simply using their Level 3 qualifications as a door key. The rather sad facts seem to suggest that what we're actually doing with the huge numbers of people training to perform, or support performance is create teachers! Since I started teaching Performing Arts in about 1996, HUGE numbers of perf arts, media and music college students became school and college teachers, not earning a living from it. The sad thing is that just in this last year, three I know very well have given up. One is thinking of giving up, and one has become a teaching assistant because she can't take the pressure. The ones that are doing best have the right kind of personality and they were NOT the most academically brilliant students, just hard working ones!

do you think it could be to do with market saturation too ? - quite simply too many agencies, too many courses? - too many wanabes? - just wondering?

[francescasmum]

riverdancefan, I think you are onto something there. At my dds drama group she is the only one who wants to be an actress when she grows up, all the rest want to be famous, I don't know if it is a coincidence but she is the only one who has done professional work, actually I think she is the only one who has done any other sort of acting outside school or drama class!

I also think that there are a lot of people who think you train therefore you will become, and assume that getting into 'acting college' is different to getting into university, that they just go. One mum said that her daughter was staying at this drama group until she is 18, then she's going to RADA, then she will do acting!

[Flosmom]

rAt my dds drama group she is the only one who wants to be an actress when she grows up, all the rest want to be famous,

I smiled when I read this, because it's exactly our experience too.

Did you ever see Whoopi Goldberg on 'In the Actors Studio'? She gave some very astute advice which I'll paraphrase as 'if you want to act, act. If you want to be famous do something else'.

She pointed out that there are lots of opportunities to act, including fringe, touring theatre, rep etc etc. They involve being uncomfortable and - possibly - quite poor. If people find that unappealing then they probably don't want to act.

We also notice that quite a few people believe that performing well just happens. Which is a compliment because it should appear effortless, but they are oblivious to the preparation that goes into each performance, and the 'apprenticeship' that sits behind it. I know, for example, that quite a few people who know Flo assume that she just stands up and sings, with no concept of the hours of training that she undertakes, or the effort that goes into getting her standing there. And she is by no means the finished article yet!

I think that's why I like this site so much...I'll get off my soapbox now

Deb x

[Katymac]

I had this during a newspaper interview

"You are obviously very proud of your daughter's talent" & completely flummoxed her by saying "well not really - I'm very proud of the hard work she puts in; the practises, classes & rehearsals she does, the parties & cinema trips she chooses to miss and the determination she has. But not her 'talent' as such.

DD wants to dance, preferrably sing & dance but it is the dance for her. She is applying to local holiday parks to do voluntary work next summer because it will mean learning another aspect of working with dance. Dance is all there is

[puck]

She is applying to local holiday parks to do voluntary work next summer because it will mean learning another aspect of working with dance. Dance is all there is

While this is very admirable on your daughter's part I would just like to point out that it may be detrimental to her (and others) futures long-tem. If companies can get 'free' performers they are likely to snap them up and that will mean less salaried jobs available for the many students newly out of college. I would try and find amateur companies for performance opportunities. Many of them run much as a professional company and provide great experience.

[Katymac]

But at just turned 16 surely she wouldn't be able to 'work' or take the place of a member of the entertainments team - she would meerly be a runner, getting coffees and helping prepare stuff. I would have thought due to H&S she would be unable to perform, work nights or care for children at that age.

(I don't think meerly is spelt right merely? Maybe)

I wanted her to see that 'performing' can mean sorting out other peoples stuff, washing up and doing less fun stuff

Maybe I'm wrong

[nigelben]

Two years ago my DS started a BTEC course in Acting (sorry know the thread is about Musical Theatre but hopefully DS experience maybe helpful) at our local college which does have a very good reputation, he was really in two minds whether to stay on at school and do A levels including performing arts or to do the BTEC , my suggestion to him along with the sixth form head at his school was to give the BTEC a go but they would be more than happy to take him back at school if he didn't feel it was for him after trying it for a couple weeks. I could tell my DS wasn't overly happy at college, he said he felt-it's hard to explain-but sort of "guilty" that perhaps he should be learning more academically but the first module for the BTEC was children's theatre, he said they had been acting as animals for 3 days, which at the time didn't feel right for him. He decided it wasn't for him after a couple of weeks and went back to sixth form. I do now wonder whether my son regrets not giving it more of a go, he did get some decent A levels but apart from the acting at school and his other drama groups I don't know that he enjoyed the 2 years in sixth form (apart from the socialising!!) and may have been happier doing the BTEC, it's a shame for DS that his first module wasn't a more serious aspect of acting. He is absolutely determined to go to drama school and will be starting his second year of acting school auditions so I think a BTEC in acting would have been just as good an option as A levels in subjects that he's never going to use as he wouldn't want to go to uni only drama school.

[Welsh Mum]

You ought to warn your son that animal studies is a component on all good acting courses and many M T ones ! Far from being not a serious form of acting, it's a very well respected area. Also many grads Get work in TIE or pantos so the children's theatre is a really useful course as well.

My Dad did not enjoy the first few weeks of her BTEC course but she stuck it out and loved it . She found a really good prep for drama school. One of the reasons was that she learnt on the BTEC Course that she would enjoy training - which is very differrent to school drama lessons or amdram and performance work. It's why she decided To stick it out - I told her if you don't like this then poss training not for you.

[nigelben]

I had the same thought Welshmum at that time that perhaps drama school maybe wasn't right for my son. DS is well aware that he will be doing animal studies on any acting course but I think it was just the fact it was the first thing he did and as he was in 2 minds as to stay on at school or do a BTEC at that time, it swayed his decision, that was 2 years ago, he is totally focused on acting now, which just highlights what a very hard decision to make at the age of 16. I think if he had stuck it out he may have been happier doing the BTEC rather than staying on at school.

[paulears]

She is applying to local holiday parks to do voluntary work next summer

DON'T!
My part of the country is full of these (many Warners and Bourne Leisure especially).

They treat their staff very poorly - paying minimum wage, but due to hours worked, actually lower than that, and the quantity of staff mean anybody doing work experience will be on their own lots of time, and they'll end up being used. The turnover of staff is pretty high, conditions poor, hours long, and quality very, very variable. You can find somebody excellent being junior to an ents manager who is dreadful. Staff morale is very low, and those that do it burn out quickly. They fire on whims, and are oversubscribed. For every good person, there will be somebody lazy, untalented and a nightmare to work with. The reality is cruise ships are pretty much the same, but on water. These jobs are good for experience, but standards are very low. Technical, production and performance values are very low - sometimes embarrassingly low. For somebody under 16, the working environment is pretty unsavoury too. Having to dance with fairly slimy people, expected to say yes to every guest, have a permanent smile on their face, and work till very late is something I'm not sure I'd like my daughter (if I had had one) to do!

To be very honest, you will learn very little about professional performance at a holiday centre - what it does do is give these kids a quick lesson in how dreadful the public and the business can be - so it still is a good grounding. As in, if you can survive a year working at Warner's you toughen up very quickly. They're not bad places, just places where entertainment is tailored to their clients needs and budget!

[Katymac]

Sorry - obviously I got it wrong; I just assumed she would end up clearing up childrens crafts activities, making the tea and mending the odd costume!

Now I need to plan for, what, 3 maybe 4 months of summer schools - bugger. Working from home can cost a fortune in childcare for a teenager with no transport (4 mile walk to station, 1 train an hour & 2 buses a day) is no fun at all - how frustrating!!! I was hoping for an easier summer than the last few